Occupy Rooftops - Solar energy have a huge potential

[grunde]

I just think this idea is excellent!!!

https://solarmosaic.com/solarday

Cheers,
Grunde

[joesnuffy]

Community solar projects are taking the first steps toward a future where people can move their money out of low-yield savings accounts and into safe and high-yield solar investments

Just like the solar plant that took $535 Million in tax money and went bankrupt?

Is there a different page that explains what they are trying to accomplish?

[mattklara]

I'd say there is a difference between privately owned rooftop solar installations and the conduct/activities of the swindlers that stole that money from the US and went bankrupt. Subsidy is one thing (not necessarily good), but the failure on the part of economic planners in the govt should not be used to judge solar power as a means to generate electricity. There is a big difference between science and greed.

Now, if the sun would come out here in Portland, I'd go stand outside, do some casting, and generate some solar power of my own.

[joesnuffy]

I'm not trying to be a d1ck, but I'm still lost at what this group wants us to do? Was reading a little more on the page and found this.

What We Believe
...
2.In energy democracy, a society where everyone has a fundamental right to clean and affordable energy.
....

These 2 this will most likely never go together. While they are at it there's some other magical stuff I'd like.....

[grunde]

I'm not trying to be a d1ck, but I'm still lost at what this group wants us to do?

It's quite simple actually. They raise funds to finance small scale solar power projects. The way they raise funds is by selling "shares" of the project.

Was reading a little more on the page and found this.

What We Believe
...
2.In energy democracy, a society where everyone has a fundamental right to clean and affordable energy.
....

These 2 this will most likely never go together. While they are at it there's some other magical stuff I'd like.....

This I don't get? Is it clean and affordable which "... will most likely never go together" or is it "energy democracy" you don't believe in?

You certainly have a point when it comes to price, but price is not the only component in affordable. I think we should ask ourselves if we can afford to continue with the current level of greenhouse gas emissions (+ other pollutants, which mainly have local impact, but people are dying due to these).

Another thing is that the price of electricity varies allot:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_pricing
if this one is still correct the price of electricity is almost 3 times higher in Europe (Germany and Denmark for instance) than in the US. This mean that Europeans already (almost) pay the price of solar energy for their power. If we now combine high electricity prices, the commitment to abolish nuclear power, and a strong "green movement" with the fact that Germany have the highest level of education (and innovation) in the world, it is safe to predict that Germany will be the main driver on renewable energy (including solar). I think it's a petty, because the US potential for solar is much bigger than Germany's potential. Why use gas for domestic hot water in sunny California? Higher demand for solar system will drive the prices down...

And even if I live in not so sunny Norway I do understand that solar have a HUGE potential. In fact it's the only renewable which can deliver the worlds energy demand, and it can (in principle) be done with todays technology
http://www.landartgenerator.org/blagi....000.jpg

I'm not saying there is no challenges (especially related to energy transport and storage), but I think we can do it, and if we don't try we are really fucked.

The Wikipedia article on solar is good: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power

Now on the "democracy" thing. Yes there will be resistance from the big energy companies against small power plants on our roofs and in our basements. And especially in areas where they both own the power plants and the distribution infrastructure. But again I think Germany will pave the way (at least in Europe).

In Germany you can install this combined heat and power station in your basement: https://www.lichtblick.de/h/english_information_395.php now combine this with solar panels on your roof and you have a pretty cool system :pirate

And I also like this one (which I think someone linked to on SexyLoops)
http://www.solar-aid.org/

In Norway we use to say "mange bekker små blir til en stor å" (many small creeks make up a big river). And in my opinion, the https://solarmosaic.com/about project is one such nice little creek... Just my two cents

Man I wish this one is not a hoax, but I'm pretty sure it is...
http://www.e-catworld.com/what-is-the-e-cat/


Cheers,
Grunde

[joesnuffy]

Good lord Grunde, that was one hell of a response :p

I was refering more to the "clean and affordable" part. 3x the cost to produce is not a very good option IMO. Look how crappy they've done with the wind power. It's crazy expensive, unreliable and an eyesore.

Now if solar was less expensive, I'd be more then happy to install it on my house. We get quite a bit of sun where I live so i think it would work.

[grunde]

I think there shoul be a price tag on the enviromental impact of fosil fuels...
For instance, how do you guys feel about fracking for shale gas extraction in your watersheds?

Windpower will also play an important role in the future energy mix (just ask the Danes and Brits on this forum).

Cheers,
Grunde

[jomeder]

Hi,

Although the linked article seems kind of nonsensical and a fairly lame attempt to jump of the Occupy thing, it isn't a bad sort of idea.

I saw an piece on NHK World a while back about a similar sounding scheme in a small town in Japan. It was along the lines of people buying shares in a solar scheme which puts up the money to put panels on people's roofs and installs batteries and a smart meter type of thing which monitors power use. The scheme had some bulk buying advantages which helped to bring down the cost a bit. The home owners pay a monthly fee to the scheme and the scheme pays a small but reasonable sounding dividend to shareholders. I believe there was some way of offsetting the monthly cost with energy returned to the grid. People seemed very happy with it all round and the home owners just seemed like ordinary people without big environmental agendas apart from liking the idea of cleaner (on the generation side anyway) and cheaper electricity.

The idea of panels being owned by someone else, leasing them in effect, is quite a good one because it means you don't have to worry about them paying for themselves in some timeframe, which seems to the biggest issue for many people when it comes to solar energy. If you move house in 5 years the panel owners still have the panels and the opportunity to recoup costs.

I really wanted to install solar water heating on my new house. In combination with the wetback on the fire I can see needing to use very little power for water heating. We've been able to turn the power to the hot water cylinder off during the colder months in other houses where there were wetbacks, and it made a noticeable saving. I wasn't bothered about whether the solar stuff paid for itself particularly, I was happy to do it on the principle. The system was going to cost about $10,000 and unfortunately as the project costs increased it stopped being feasible for us.

Regards,

Jo

[mattklara]

I think there shoul be a price tag on the enviromental impact of fosil fuels...
For instance, how do you guys feel about fracking for shale gas extraction in your watersheds?

Cheers,
Grunde

Oh, man, what a can of worms that is. Fracking is a whole new and fabulous way to destroy our ground and surface water resources, and the ecosystems they support. Hopefully, fracking will never manage to really become economically feasible. What a disaster we'd have on our hands.

[grunde]

I agree!

And it's really unfair, the fact is that fossil fuels are heavily sponsored by the public.

1) Upon extraction "they" don't pay for the environmental impact of the operation.

2) When burning the fuel "they" don't pay for the environmental impact of that either.

These bills are sent to us! And the price is already quite high, and it will increase...


Cheers,
Grunde

[Biology]

Now if solar was less expensive, I'd be more then happy to install it on my house. We get quite a bit of sun where I live so i think it would work.

The solar industry has consistently delivered 18-21% cost reductions everytime maunfacturing capacity doubles for the last three decades. It's getting there and with a fraction of the subsidy binged on nuclear, gas, oil and coal.

I should have posted this here....

Great initiative grunde...

[Paul Arden]

It's not working in the fog :glare:

[Biology]

It's not working in the fog :glare:

Be patient Paul, there's more daylight than fog most days...

[Paul Arden]

Hmmm. Not at the moment! Fog since Wednesday and forecast at least until next Thursday! No power and no sun, just fog :p

[grunde]

I should have posted this here....

Thanks for the heads up on that one Andy!

Here is another brilliant "solar idea": http://solarroadways.com/main.html

Grunde