I do feel very strongly that it is far easier to develop and retain some bad habits if you learn on shooting heads, particularly if you cast mainly skagit heads.
Just out of curiosity, would you please list the examples of the bad habits that people retain after they have learned to spey cast on shooting/skajit heads.
Morsie wrote:Thanks Ben and Lasse do you use a 12'6" rod on a stream 5-20 feet wide?
Morsie
Hi Peter
Nope, those are tiny trout streams. i live in what probably is the worst part of the world for river fishing with twohanders if I want to do it close. My nearest salmon river is in another country :p
I use a 12'6" on the south swedish salmon rivers, and I use shootingheads exclusively there. I agree with Lee on just about everything he said.
And just on a further note, I see people with grooved in strokes regardless of tackle, I bet you do too!
Question: What would I have to change if I use a 40 feet head fishing for salmon and my casting goes from throwing 30 feet out to a 100 with everything in between? Those are the typical distances I use on most of the rivers I fish, and I have a very hard time doing that good with just one grooved in stroke
Regarding learning the DH - it's all the same as with SH without hauling. You just have both of your hands on the rod.
You mostly move your top or bottom hand or anything in between. Depends on your preference and tackle.
I've seen many people who have dialed in just one (short) stroke for their max distance. Thus they set up their tackle to fit that - always a shooting head combo. When you give them a longer line that needs longer stroke, all may go well thru the BC but then huge creep and fast, short stroke - tail, surprise surprise. A bad habit that has been really difficult to break. And it seems to come back for many of these guys when tired or under pressure (competitions).
It seems to be easier to go from mid bellys to shorter ones.
Morsie, if you're starting to learn, I would get couple of different lines. One that could be characterized as a mid belly (depends on your rod lenght) and a shooting head.
I was practising with some of our club members and my wife showed up (I live 400m from our practise pond). She wanted to try. I let her but said that she would not manage. She didn't - I was using a heavy 15' rod and 82' competition spey head. I promised the teach her but not with that setup. We have gone for one teaching session since that - I had my older and lighter 15' + windcutter spey (short head). This setup is so light that I can cast it easily with four fingers or with some trouble, single handed. If she had played ball games (tennis etc) I would have gone with a mid belly but she is completely unfamiliar with fly rods or basically any kind of bat, racket, stick etc so I need to start from scratch. But when she picks up how to use the rod, I will rig it with a medium belly and shooting head. After that I need to buy her waders.
Btw, I use only scandi and skagit heads on my 12'6" (it's #9/10, so pretty hefty still despite the length).
I'm here just for the chicks.
President of The Village Idiots of Vantaa Rapids
President of The Casting Federation of Finland
I do feel very strongly that it is far easier to develop and retain some bad habits if you learn on shooting heads, particularly if you cast mainly skagit heads.
Just out of curiosity, would you please list the examples of the bad habits that people retain after they have learned to spey cast on shooting/skajit heads.
Cheers
Lee
Hi Lee,
Maybe "bad habit" isn't the exactly correct phrase, but a couple things that I have seen from people who learned on Skagit lines include:
- lack of a high, positive stop, and tight loops.
- inability to understand/conceptualize/execute the anchor positioning stroke with longer lines. long lines require that you cast and aim the anchor, while for skagit lines you can pretty much just drag the line upstream and let if fall where it may.
- difficulty in forming energized D loops and completing casts that use dynamic energy to load the rod rather than just pure mass and stick on the water.
- difficulty in altering casting stroke length and power application when confronted with different lines and fishing situations.
I think these symptoms are far more likely to come from Skagit than Scandinavian heads, even though both are relatively short in length. Maybe it is mechanical, but maybe it is a mentality of just trying to get it out there being good enough.
Hope that helps. I'm no expert. Just dangerous/confident enough to try and share what I've observed.
Take care,
Matt
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