Magnus, good point of the delay between butt section and tip. But the graph of the butt movement doesnt tell us about inproper acceleration before the stop which might cause a tailing, does it?
The text that clip goes with that says:
This video shows how a tailing loop is formed in the forward cast due to non-smooth application of power. The smoothness ratio for the forward cast is 10.5 which is large enough to generate the observable tailing loop.
As far as I can see that IS a tailing loop and there IS a specific type of acceleration and Bruce does demonstrate a tailing loop. The argument seems to be about the necessity of the links - the causality if you like. did the acceleration cause the tail?
As far as I can see Bruce stops hard and 'early' which exaggerates the effect. However there is no question in my mind that form of acceleration means, as Bruce performs the cast, from RSP his rod tip rises then dips and rises again - that causes a wave in the line - AKA a tailing loop.
Comparing the two casts:
Bruce started the tailing loop with the line angling up from the rod tip - the tight loop with the line angling down from the rod tip.
I don't know if the length of line was the same but it looks similar. The arcs can be compared and look similar to me.
The Maximum Angular Velocity for each can also be compared - the rod throwing the tailing loop reaches double the angular velocity used to cast the 'tight loop'.
I do find myself wondering about the line position for the tailing loop. If you have read Mac Brown's book you will recall his findings about the line positions and tailing loops - least likely if the line is below horizontal when the stroke starts - most likely when the line is above horizontal.
Btw the straight line from the tip at RSP to RSP in both images was drawn
Magnus wrote:Playing with frames grabbed from the clip then overlayed in Photoshop this is what I get. Between RSP and RSP the tip rises, dips and rises again.
As far as I can see that IS a tailing loop and there IS a specific type of acceleration and Bruce does demonstrate a tailing loop.
Glad you pointed it out. I wasn't aware that the video was about taling loops related to power application. :oh:
The argument seems to be about the necessity of the links - the causality if you like. did the acceleration cause the tail?
That's precisely the question this thread is all about.
As far as I can see Bruce stops hard and 'early' which exaggerates the effect.
Why do you need to exaggerate the effect by starting your stop at 12:00? Would the loop tail without that "exaggeration of the effect"?
However there is no question in my mind that form of acceleration means, as Bruce performs the cast, from RSP his rod tip rises then dips and rises again
NEVER below SLP. Hence my question from previous posts:
For a tailing loop to form due to improper power application does the tip need to dip below SLP or not?
Aitor is not like us, he is Spanish, and therefore completely mad.
Cheers, Paul
No discutas nunca con un idiota, la gente podría no notar la diferencia.
Immanuel Kant
As far as I can see Bruce stops hard and 'early' which exaggerates the effect. However there is no question in my mind that form of acceleration means, as Bruce performs the cast, from RSP his rod tip rises then dips and rises again - that causes a wave in the line - AKA a tailing loop.
What wave, Magnus?
Attachments
no_Wave.jpg (85.64 KiB) Viewed 2626 times
Aitor is not like us, he is Spanish, and therefore completely mad.
Cheers, Paul
No discutas nunca con un idiota, la gente podría no notar la diferencia.
Immanuel Kant
Could you give me an example cast where the tip path from RSP to RSP in a straight line? From the clip of the Tight Loop it is clear that the tip path there (SLP) curves up from initial RSP and down to RSP at the end of the stop.
Aitor you have taken SLP literally. The evidence suggests that the tip path we call SLP is a flattened curve. That is not new we have discussed clips and found this before on SL.
Apply a real tip path which could produce a non-tailing loop to the tailing loop clip and there is a very clear dip. The lowest point in the dip is when the rod is slightly beyond vertical - when the butt is, according to the graph, already into the stop.
Magnus wrote:Aitor you have taken SLP literally. The evidence suggests that the tip path we call SLP is a flattened curve. That is not new we have discussed clips and found this before on SL.
I know; a cast with a perfect SLP is impossible. Basic.
What I don't know is where that wave due to the dip is.
Aitor is not like us, he is Spanish, and therefore completely mad.
Cheers, Paul
No discutas nunca con un idiota, la gente podría no notar la diferencia.
Immanuel Kant
