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TOO SHORT! - Casting Terms

rusty00
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TOO SHORT! - Casting Terms

Post by rusty00 »

Does anyone know the term for what happens when casting too short of head is?
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WetWading
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Post by WetWading »

Do you mean overhang? This is the amount of running line outside the rod tip. This causes hinging, in turn causing slack.
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rusty00
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Post by rusty00 »

Nope, its not overhang. I'm talking about casting just the head, no running line involved and not shooting any line either.
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Marc LaMouche
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Post by Marc LaMouche »

rusty00 wrote:I'm talking about casting just the head, no running line involved and not shooting any line either.
what's 'too short' about that then ?
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Aitor
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Post by Aitor »

Mine is too short also. Nothing to do about it, unfortunately.
Aitor is not like us, he is Spanish, and therefore completely mad.
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robk
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Post by robk »

Rusty:

If I am guessing your question correctly, you are talking about "dumping". This is where the loop runs out too quickly, causing the line to fly through the air like a piece of spaghetti and land in a messy pile.

Rob
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Post by Rudi Ferris »

Or...

Could Rusty be referring to the fast turnover and kick down of the line (sometimes an almost untapered line) when falsecasting?

Rusty, where are you? :D
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Post by Paul Arden »

I once rigged up a 2m lead core for deep backcountry pools and big fish. It was ugly!
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wjc
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Post by wjc »

Rudi,

I would guess that you are right about what he's talking about. Too much line speed for too little mass out the tip, resulting in a sort of uncontrolled "tuck" cast of sorts.

But we'll probably never know for sure.

Cheers.
Jim
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Post by Rudi Ferris »

Hi Jim, sorry I didn’t see your reply earlier. :)

No, we may never know what Rusty wondered about. Too bad, an interesting subject for many of us. False-casting the shooting head can be interesting because of what Rusty may have observed.

In general, the forward false cast is often open and with the kick-over can tick the water or otherwise be not so great. There are a number of techniques to improve it including putting some gentle thrust into it to keep the loop more closed and thus unrolling straighter to the trajectory. Also, one can roll that front false cast loop off the side.

But the higher density the line (and the less taper such a line often has) the more this can be a problem. Also, false casting a shorter head can become a pretty frenetic exercise unless consciously slowed down. At a certain point with a very dense line, short leader etc., one is better off doing a water hauled backcast, if possible.

Whatever… that front cast or lay down in the water is only a set for the back-cast whose reversal into the shoot becomes the critical component of this kind of casting. Many terrific shooting head casters use a pedestrian and unimpressive forward false cast. But that backcast and final shoot are what to keep your eye on.

Is how I see it. Cheers
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Post by robk »

Many terrific shooting head casters use a pedestrian and unimpressive forward false cast. But that backcast and final shoot are what to keep your eye on.


Not sure if this is what the pros do, but I often throw almost sloppy open loops on the fwd cast, especially with dense heads or heavy Clousers. This reduces the kick at the end, which smooths out the delivery into the final backcast. The backcast is usually smooth but not powerful- just enough to get the head back cleanly. Wrinkles in the line are a distance killer.

To make things easier, I water haul when possible. However, that is usually not the best approach in the surf.

Re-reading Rusty's comment, I think your guess was correct Rudi. It does sound like a false casting issue. Given the lack of input on his own thread, I assume Rusty gave up on heads and is now happily throwing 140' with a WF5....

Rob
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Post by Rudi Ferris »

:D Well Rob, without Rusty it's still interesting.

Your approach to the forward falsecast is common: it’s just not so important and as a consequence, is often inelegant. That short head, and most particularly a very dense one, wants to fall, and the normal way we counter the flyline wanting to fall or sag is to speed up its path falsecasting. This necessitates a faster tempo.

Combine that with an often short and very small proportional taper, heavy fly, short leader, and false casting the thing can look like a dog's breakfast with an overdose of caffeine. :(

It takes some conscious effort to moderate this. That’s why it seems likely this was what Rusty was asking about….But who knows, maybe he had some other observation that could prove equally as useful.

Cheers, Rudi
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Post by grhen »

Line kick?
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Post by Rudi Ferris »

Yes, I think that’s definitely part of it, Guy.

And the speed/tempo with which the short head is carried fore aft. Keeping the fore loop tighter with a bit of thrust (the backcast should always be tight) helps a bit with the kick. And extending overhang helps a bit with the tempo. But too much overhang, in my experience fishing, can lead to too tight a delivery loop.

--------------------------

In your DN loop analysis you question whether too tight a loop is a casting fault. I think it can definitely be, as is a dolphin nose in general, in my opinion. I agree with Al Kyte; any dip in the fly leg can be a cause for concern. It doesn't have to fully tail.

Grass casting with a whisp of yarn is one thing; with a real fly, problems are courted by too tight a loop. This is why, again, in my opinion, the type of delivery shooting loop talked of in the Cast and Release thread is a superior configuration. It's sharp and fast, yet slightly open but powerful, and leading to good turnover.

Just some thoughts, Rudi
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Post by grhen »

I agree about having the tackle set up. I know a lot of time the fluff doesn't provide enough drag. That is probably where some of the traverse wave thing comes in (line kick due to poorly balanced leader fly combo) that Gordy is currently discussing.
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