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TOO SHORT! - Casting Terms
TOO SHORT! - Casting Terms
Does anyone know the term for what happens when casting too short of head is?
- WetWading
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Do you mean overhang? This is the amount of running line outside the rod tip. This causes hinging, in turn causing slack.
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- Marc LaMouche
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- Aitor
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Mine is too short also. Nothing to do about it, unfortunately.
Aitor is not like us, he is Spanish, and therefore completely mad.
Cheers, Paul
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Cheers, Paul
No discutas nunca con un idiota, la gente podría no notar la diferencia.
Immanuel Kant
Videos for casting geeks
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- Paul Arden
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Hi Jim, sorry I didn’t see your reply earlier.
No, we may never know what Rusty wondered about. Too bad, an interesting subject for many of us. False-casting the shooting head can be interesting because of what Rusty may have observed.
In general, the forward false cast is often open and with the kick-over can tick the water or otherwise be not so great. There are a number of techniques to improve it including putting some gentle thrust into it to keep the loop more closed and thus unrolling straighter to the trajectory. Also, one can roll that front false cast loop off the side.
But the higher density the line (and the less taper such a line often has) the more this can be a problem. Also, false casting a shorter head can become a pretty frenetic exercise unless consciously slowed down. At a certain point with a very dense line, short leader etc., one is better off doing a water hauled backcast, if possible.
Whatever… that front cast or lay down in the water is only a set for the back-cast whose reversal into the shoot becomes the critical component of this kind of casting. Many terrific shooting head casters use a pedestrian and unimpressive forward false cast. But that backcast and final shoot are what to keep your eye on.
Is how I see it. Cheers
No, we may never know what Rusty wondered about. Too bad, an interesting subject for many of us. False-casting the shooting head can be interesting because of what Rusty may have observed.
In general, the forward false cast is often open and with the kick-over can tick the water or otherwise be not so great. There are a number of techniques to improve it including putting some gentle thrust into it to keep the loop more closed and thus unrolling straighter to the trajectory. Also, one can roll that front false cast loop off the side.
But the higher density the line (and the less taper such a line often has) the more this can be a problem. Also, false casting a shorter head can become a pretty frenetic exercise unless consciously slowed down. At a certain point with a very dense line, short leader etc., one is better off doing a water hauled backcast, if possible.
Whatever… that front cast or lay down in the water is only a set for the back-cast whose reversal into the shoot becomes the critical component of this kind of casting. Many terrific shooting head casters use a pedestrian and unimpressive forward false cast. But that backcast and final shoot are what to keep your eye on.
Is how I see it. Cheers
Many terrific shooting head casters use a pedestrian and unimpressive forward false cast. But that backcast and final shoot are what to keep your eye on.
Not sure if this is what the pros do, but I often throw almost sloppy open loops on the fwd cast, especially with dense heads or heavy Clousers. This reduces the kick at the end, which smooths out the delivery into the final backcast. The backcast is usually smooth but not powerful- just enough to get the head back cleanly. Wrinkles in the line are a distance killer.
To make things easier, I water haul when possible. However, that is usually not the best approach in the surf.
Re-reading Rusty's comment, I think your guess was correct Rudi. It does sound like a false casting issue. Given the lack of input on his own thread, I assume Rusty gave up on heads and is now happily throwing 140' with a WF5....
Rob
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Well Rob, without Rusty it's still interesting.
Your approach to the forward falsecast is common: it’s just not so important and as a consequence, is often inelegant. That short head, and most particularly a very dense one, wants to fall, and the normal way we counter the flyline wanting to fall or sag is to speed up its path falsecasting. This necessitates a faster tempo.
Combine that with an often short and very small proportional taper, heavy fly, short leader, and false casting the thing can look like a dog's breakfast with an overdose of caffeine.
It takes some conscious effort to moderate this. That’s why it seems likely this was what Rusty was asking about….But who knows, maybe he had some other observation that could prove equally as useful.
Cheers, Rudi
Your approach to the forward falsecast is common: it’s just not so important and as a consequence, is often inelegant. That short head, and most particularly a very dense one, wants to fall, and the normal way we counter the flyline wanting to fall or sag is to speed up its path falsecasting. This necessitates a faster tempo.
Combine that with an often short and very small proportional taper, heavy fly, short leader, and false casting the thing can look like a dog's breakfast with an overdose of caffeine.
It takes some conscious effort to moderate this. That’s why it seems likely this was what Rusty was asking about….But who knows, maybe he had some other observation that could prove equally as useful.
Cheers, Rudi
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Yes, I think that’s definitely part of it, Guy.
And the speed/tempo with which the short head is carried fore aft. Keeping the fore loop tighter with a bit of thrust (the backcast should always be tight) helps a bit with the kick. And extending overhang helps a bit with the tempo. But too much overhang, in my experience fishing, can lead to too tight a delivery loop.
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In your DN loop analysis you question whether too tight a loop is a casting fault. I think it can definitely be, as is a dolphin nose in general, in my opinion. I agree with Al Kyte; any dip in the fly leg can be a cause for concern. It doesn't have to fully tail.
Grass casting with a whisp of yarn is one thing; with a real fly, problems are courted by too tight a loop. This is why, again, in my opinion, the type of delivery shooting loop talked of in the Cast and Release thread is a superior configuration. It's sharp and fast, yet slightly open but powerful, and leading to good turnover.
Just some thoughts, Rudi
And the speed/tempo with which the short head is carried fore aft. Keeping the fore loop tighter with a bit of thrust (the backcast should always be tight) helps a bit with the kick. And extending overhang helps a bit with the tempo. But too much overhang, in my experience fishing, can lead to too tight a delivery loop.
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In your DN loop analysis you question whether too tight a loop is a casting fault. I think it can definitely be, as is a dolphin nose in general, in my opinion. I agree with Al Kyte; any dip in the fly leg can be a cause for concern. It doesn't have to fully tail.
Grass casting with a whisp of yarn is one thing; with a real fly, problems are courted by too tight a loop. This is why, again, in my opinion, the type of delivery shooting loop talked of in the Cast and Release thread is a superior configuration. It's sharp and fast, yet slightly open but powerful, and leading to good turnover.
Just some thoughts, Rudi
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