Introduction and question.

[OkieBrad]

I love fly fishing. My wife would call it infatuated. Netting a fish is great but it is the steps I have taken to netting that fish which gives me the most pleasure.

The last week of July 2011 was the first time my hands grasped a fly rod. My wife wanted to take our vacation at a beautiful lake which also had a 12 mile trout stream below the damn. No argument from me. This gave me a excuse to buy some more crank baits, of course in sizes and colors I did not have, and while I was at it pick up a fly rod just to see if I could tempt a trout or two. So with my $100 Hobs Creek, everything you need except the fish, and an SA beginners fly casting DVD I was ready to become a fly fisherman.

As fate would have it, I packed my fishing gear rather light. One 2 piece spin cast set and my new fly fishing set. When I went to rig my spin cast I come to the realization I had packed 2 different pole sections. At this point I had two choices, go to town buy a new pole for my spin cast reel or quickly learn to use a fly rod. My wife made that decision for me.

If you would have been there that day you could tell the tale of some old man. Standing at the side of a creek for three hours. Waving a stick and sting over the water. Hell he didn't even have a fly tied to the string.

That is what I did, wave the rod back and forth. Not sure what I was trying to do or accomplish but I knew what I was doing was not the right way to cast a fly. And then it happened. On one stroke my hand stopped and I felt the line pull on the tip of the rod. “I think Mikey likes it” is the best way to describe what I felt at that moment. Sadly I broke this pole within a few moments tying on a hook. Wish I could tell you it was a big trout but the truth is you will not find fish in trees. My pole is now a Redington Red Fly 8' 6” #5. The next day my wife and I caught 25 trout.

Since that day I have engulfed myself in books and the web trying to learn as much as possible. As for casting you will see me in my front yard, when the weather allows, practicing different casts at targets. Of course I want to be a better casters but I mostly do it because it is fun. In fact I'm out there so much my neighbor told me her sister asked, “ Is your neighbor a little crazy? I see him fishing in his front yard every time I come over?” I have not had the privilege of a casting lesson but I hope to change that this summer.

I have even sent money to Mr. Norlander and he was kind enough to set me up with his fly tying system. So far, many of the hooks I have tied look like smashed bugs humping a stick but I am quickly getting better. In fact Hunt's crayfish I tied yesterday is by no means perfect but it looks like a crayfish. Can't wait to try it out.

I have retired my spin cast gear. I am hooked on fly fishing. In Oklahoma, we do not have an abundance of places to trout fish. I'm about 250 miles away from the trout stream I spoke of earlier. I will spend most of my time feeding pan fish, carp, and bass.

I bass fish on lakes and ponds. Most large mouth hit the scale at about #5 but some will push #10. The striped bass are closer to #20. I plan on fishing with larger streamers. I have not tried with my current pole. As I understand pole weights and action It would be better on me and the fish (catch and release) if I increased the pole weight to about a #7 and fast action. My question is what weight rod would you use. Fast, medium, or slow action, and why?

[Paul Arden]

Welcome to the Board, Brad! I'm just off to bed but will give you my thoughts quickly. For handling bass and in particular bass bugs you'll certainly be better off with a heavier outfit. And probably an 8-weight.

OK back tomorrow!

Cheers, Paul

[OkieBrad]

Thank you for the welcome and response.

You suggest that an 8 weight would do well with “ in particular bass bugs”. I have read the hook size used may suggest what weight rod/line you use. If memory serves me correct an 8 weight rod and 8 weight line is designed to accurately and efficiently cast a hook size 1/0 to 12. Correct me if my understanding is way off base. A “heavier outfit” is needed to cast a heavier and/or more wind resistant fly. A lighter outfit would not efficiently acquire enough line speed. Does the anticipated size of the fish play a role in rod weight? If any, what other factors should I consider when selecting a rod weight?

Heavier outfit = Heavier line to move fly at correct speed and heavier rod to handle heavier line?

[Paul Arden]

Yep, it goes, fly size, line size, rod. There are times when you may specifically choose a rod based on its fighting ability, or line weight based on delicacy, but on the most part it's based around fly size (weight and wind resistance).

Cheers, Paul

[Haggisboy]

Hey Brad,

I fly fished OK a few times back in the day. Where is the trout stream you talk of, is it the one in the Arbuckle Wilderness?

I had a few tussles with Channel cats on a 5wt, needless to say it didnt last long....

I would go with an 8wt for the Bass too.

Campbell

[OkieBrad]

Haggisboy,

I have not had the privilege to fish for trout in the Arbuckle Wilderness. It is a very beautiful place. I was speaking of the Lower Mountain Fork river below Broken Bow reservoir.

Paul,

Thank you very much, I am starting to understand rod weights and the role they play when fly fishing.

You did not mention the action of the rod so I will assume it plays little to no role in what hook size I use. So... as I understand rod flex, a full flexing rod is slower line, less distance, more delicate presentation. Medium flexing rod is medium distance, a bit faster line, some call best of both worlds. Tip flexing rod is fast line, more distance, harder to control accuracy.

If I wanted to present a fly in a more delicate manner I could increase the line weight in order to move the location of the pole flex and/or decrease the line weight to increase line speed because only the tip will flex? Or is the actual flex on the pole static and the increased weight would have an exact opposite effect?

I'm also confused about accuracy and rod flex. It would appear to me a on a full flexing rod, the tip would have a better chance to move outside my casting arc since the entire rod is flexing. With a tip only flex it would seem I lower the chance of the tip moving side to side since only a fraction of the rod is bending.

[Paul Arden]

OK Interesting questions there Brad.

a full flexing rod is slower line, less distance, more delicate presentation. Medium flexing rod is medium distance, a bit faster line, some call best of both worlds. Tip flexing rod is fast line, more distance, harder to control accuracy.

Some people will tell you that but it really doesn't make a great deal of difference. It's mostly about what feels good for you. Stiffer rods do have an advantage in distance and speed of fly delivery, and many competition casters favour slightly softer rods for targets. Softer rods are also useful for fishing fine tippets and wet fly anglers prefer them too. But - and it is a big but - there is a lot of marketing involved and even instructors have a hard time agreeing on these things.

If I wanted to present a fly in a more delicate manner I could increase the line weight in order to move the location of the pole flex and/or decrease the line weight to increase line speed because only the tip will flex? Or is the actual flex on the pole static and the increased weight would have an exact opposite effect?

No the flex is certainly not static. For a small load (small casting force and short length of line) only the tip portion will flex. As you increase load (more force and longer line) the rod will progressively bend. This is true for all rods. If you need more delicate presentation, the only recourse is to use a lighter line weight (and preferably match this again with a suitable rod).

This incidentally, is why you have to learn to vary your casting arc, narrow arc for short length of line and little speed, widening your arc as you increase line carry and/or speed.

I'm also confused about accuracy and rod flex. It would appear to me a on a full flexing rod, the tip would have a better chance to move outside my casting arc since the entire rod is flexing. With a tip only flex it would seem I lower the chance of the tip moving side to side since only a fraction of the rod is bending.

The argument is this: because a softer rod will flex greater for the same load, it will require a wider casting arc and the tip will consequently travel a longer path. That makes it more akin to sighting with a rifle than a handgun. But, the keys to being accurate it to really know your tackle, throw straight, be absolutely sure of your leader length and practise!

If you're looking for a bass rod, best would be to work out your approximate budget and I'm sure you'll get many good recommendations from others here. Are you using a boat or kayak fishing? For a kayak a slightly shorter rod is best. Also if casting is very difficult because there is lots of overhanging trees behind you, then I would also look at a slightly shorter rod. Otherwise 9ft is a good all-round length.

Cheers, Paul

[OkieBrad]

Thank you so much, I get it now. With equal force a “fast or tip flex” rod will bend less, starting at the tip and moving down the shaft, than a “full flex or soft” rod. With a tip flex rod you can cast “heavier” before you use all the potential energy stored inside the rod. Or to cast softer with a tip flex rod you may have to open your loops to keep from using the potential energy. For fishing, the action of the rod only matters if it feels good or not. I think I would like a fast action rod because it should only flex if I was casting correctly. Seems like a great way to get better and a good reason to buy more gear.

I do not use a boat. I usually fish from the bank. I would love to try kayak fishing. I have been looking at Echo and TFO switch rods. Price looks right but with my experience I can not judge value. I would love to hear opinions from other people. About rods, reels, books, bugs, tying my leaders or prefab, anything that will feed my quest for fly fishing knowledge.

The conversation soon to be heard at Brad's house, “But honey, Paul said I needed a new fishing pole”

[Paul Arden]

I wouldn't buy a Switch Rod for this. A Switch Rod is basically a shortened down Double Handed rod that can be cast both two and one hand. Bass fishing as you know, involves throwing flies into the tightest most overgrown spots. I do prefer a relatively stiff rod for this style of fishing, because I find it easier to generate higher line speed, and high line speed enables me to fire my fly through tight gaps.

If you don't get a reply on here try in the Tackle section! You've joined at an interesting time. Never have we had two Boards before - new one coming soon here, http://www.sexyloops.co.uk/theboard/
(well actually the new one has been running for about a week!).

Cheers, Paul

[OkieBrad]

Good advice and points well taken.

I will post in the tackle section once the board switch is made. Until then I will think more about my fishing application so I can ask better and more informed questions. I am grateful you guys take the time to educate folks like me.