New CCI Test - Candidate just asking for help

[Big Eyebrow]

G'day,
A very good explanation of this is on Carl McNeil's 'U' tube video
' Carl Mcneil 5 essentials ', look at No. 3 essential re-casting stroke. :upside:

[Stoatstail50]

Hi Mac

Mark.. All OK ..Yes we are in the Distance between the stops.

Distance rod tip travels ..Casting stroke Linear

For those that care to measure them, both Casting Stroke Length and Casting Arc would conventionally be measured at the butt not the tip. They would usually be measured between Rod Straight Positions at the beginning and towards the end of your Casting Stroke. This is because, if you are filming or recording a cast, RSP is a relatively easy position to spot even though it is fleetingly brief. "The Stop" isn't really a stop in the sense that there is a complete cessation of motion so its not so easy to use as a fixed and observable point to measure by.

The length of the tip path, or tip travel, is indeed linear but it is generated by both the angular change and the linear change at the butt and it varies with the length of the rod. This is not the same thing as Casting Stroke Length which, if Casting Arc is the Surf, is the Turf in the Casting Stroke Surf 'n Turf combo down at the butt end of the rod.

A complete Casting Stroke will have Casting Arc, Casting Stroke Length, a Hand Path and a Tip Path. They are all interrelated. For the first three think "Butt", for Tip Path....erm...think "Tip"...

Where and when these things are measured is a bit of a red herring though, if you can explain what the first two are, using your hands or arms, and you can show what a concave, convex and straight tip path does for your loops, maybe using the rod and line on the ground, then you have enough to pass the test, there's no need to over think it.

Hope this clarifies things a bit.

[Sage]

Thanks Mark..

I like the hand method of illustrating the Paths.. so I am sure Ill manage.
I cross over the in the air/and sometimes the hands method.. then the drawing on the grass keeping it simple..

Had a word with Jo this pm all sorted. I don't like to have bits that I do not fully understand..

Yes Carls DVD is on the ball Well described.
Regards Mac

[Bernd]

So if I said" The tailing loop occured because the rod tip dipped below the straight line path in the Casting arc."
I would be Correct.

Hi Mac,
I think your questions about casting arc + stroke have been answered well by Mark.

Many instructors still like to seperate between a "tendency to tail" and a "tailing loop". Personally I don't do that.
The cause is the same for both and both are trouble to our casting.

It was often said that the rod tip will be dipped below SLP. But slomotion vids show that there is no straight in fly casting. And instead quiet often the tip doesn't have to be dipped below the theoretical ideal SLP in order to form a tailing issue.

Let's have a look at a short picture:



Best
Bernd

p.s.: As an examiner I would not have made a big issue of your answer but would have offered you this in addition afterwards.

[Sage]

Thanks Brend,, Yes I have watched the Fly leg following the Poor SLP in between the Casting stroke stops , just to watch the reproduction!!
I can now often sort out Power application problems and also tracking issues and hooking!!!

Pictures are great I have PE-m you..

Regards Mac

[RexW]

I posted the descriptions below a while back on a different board. It was written in response to a beginner that had never heard these terms before.

My goal was to make the explaination as simple as possible.

These answers may not be appropriate to use during a CCI exam, but they are examples of another way to "explain and demonstrate" casting terms.

Maybe this will help to give you some ideas as you develop your own teaching styles.

Good luck!

***

Stroke is moving the rod back or forward during the cast. Distance can be short or long.

> Short stroke = |.|
> Long stroke (longer cast) = |.....|

Rotation or Arc is the angle the rod changes during the cast. Generally, a long or fast cast will require more rotation than a short or slower cast.

> Rotation = \ /


Put them together and you get the Casting Stroke. The casting stroke should accelerate to a stop.

> A forward Casting Stroke should look something like this:

\...\..\.\\/ = Start slow and end fast, with a good stop.

> The rotation should be right before the stop. Early rotation will cause a tailing loop.

\.\/././ = tailing loop, this is bad.


***

[Sage]

Nice.. explanation of of the Stroke /and Arc.. Rex
Thanks for posting..
Mac.

[Stoatstail50]

Many instructors still like to seperate between a "tendency to tail" and a "tailing loop". Personally I don't do that.

If you were conducting a CI test and the candidate showed you a "tendency to tail", ie. a wave in the fly leg which doesn't cross the rod leg, as an example of a tailing loop, would you pass it Bernd ?

[easterncaster]

Many instructors still like to seperate between a "tendency to tail" and a "tailing loop". Personally I don't do that.

If you were conducting a CI test and the candidate showed you a "tendency to tail", ie. a wave in the fly leg which doesn't cross the rod leg, as an example of a tailing loop, would you pass it Bernd ?

hmmm.... :glare:

[Chris Dore]

Many instructors still like to seperate between a "tendency to tail" and a "tailing loop". Personally I don't do that.

If you were conducting a CI test and the candidate showed you a "tendency to tail", ie. a wave in the fly leg which doesn't cross the rod leg, as an example of a tailing loop, would you pass it Bernd ?

No. Its not a tail.

[James9118]

I think it takes more skill to put in a 'tendency to tail' than a full blown 'wallop it early' tail.

[Lasse Karlsson]

Not really, just open the loop up...

Cheers
Lasse

[victor]

What exactly is a tailing tendancy? It either tails or it doesn't. I was warned pre test that I had a tailing tendency, which to my mind means my loops tend to tail (which they don't), it just looks, occassionally that they might (but they don't, did I mention that? They don't, or not very often, just now and again, when I'm having an off day, perhaps)

Mike

[James9118]

What exactly is a tailing tendancy?

I imagine it to be the formation of a transverse loop visible in the fly-leg that doesn't actually collide with the rod leg - maybe because the transverse loop has such a low velocity that the main loop straightens first, or that the main loop is wide enough for it not to get there.

[Bernd]

Many instructors still like to seperate between a "tendency to tail" and a "tailing loop". Personally I don't do that.

If you were conducting a CI test and the candidate showed you a "tendency to tail", ie. a wave in the fly leg which doesn't cross the rod leg, as an example of a tailing loop, would you pass it Bernd ?

Hi Mark,
no, because the task askes for a tailing loop and a tailing loop is defined by the wave in the fly-leg crossing the rod-leg.
I would just ask him/her how it could be done more significally.
Besides that I see far more small tailing issues without having the legs crossing significally in all lessons.
Causes are still the same anyway.
For an instructor it's great being able to demonstrate a clear and significant tailing loop as well as a smaller issue and explaining where it comes from.
That is part of our main work...

I would prefer to call it Tailing issues and then just demo it significally and less significally... just like we have it in the lessons.
Greets
Bernd