On pull back. A guy asked me a guestion about it for distance casting a while back and I told him I'd never heard of it except for doing tuck casts, hooks and after the cast for emergencies like dying presentations.
But after reading that it can help narrow up loops, I got to thinking that perhaps that is why my backcast loops are much tighter than my front loops by default. I had figured it was due to a more efficient haul, but now I wonder.
It is not even possible for me to NOT pull back (more like bounce back) when I stop my arm on the backcast - even when I am extending my arm to near full extension. This is whether I have a rod in my hand or not. My arm won't just stop and stay put; it always bounces back.
I don't get the highly visible "whiplash" that the videos in one of the threads clearly demonstrated because my stop is more of a stutter that slides immediately into backwards drift - but the arm bounceback is still definitely there, only on the backcast. I don't get it at all on the forward cast even when using a narrow casting arc.
So my questions are two:
How (without math beyond trigonomerty ) does pullback narrow loops.
And do most of you have generally tighter backcast loops than forward loops when just casting and not thinking about it.
Jim a very interesting observation and I believe you may be on to something. My backs are always better than my fronts ,unless I stab. I never asked myself why? I hope several of our bright casters answers your question. Great observation Slack
Yes I believe this can in part be the case, but also rod angle at the backcast stop often has counterflex closer in line with the rod leg. Finally a delivery cast may have more force, creating additional counterflex. With layback and pulling to a close to vertical position on the forward cast it's possible to throw symmetric loops back and forward.
My backs are always better than my fronts ,unless I stab
Thanks, Slack. That's exactly what I do with one rod/line setup in particular if I want tight loops on a long cast without shortening the casting arc.
With layback and pulling to a close to vertical position on the forward cast
Paul, would elaborate just a bit on tht? I did a topic search for "layback" but it could take a really long tiime.
Edit Never mind Paul. I found this quote from Jason Borger:
The attached graphic shows a type of drift referred to as Layback (directed up-and-back drift )
. That's what I was after.
On that note, is there any way to specify just the individual posts which include the search term instead of getting entire threads in the results with the the term burried somewhere among all the pages?
Hi Jim, unfortunately not that I know of, complete pain! Yep you can stab or pull back to tighten the loop. Pull back results in a faster loop (for me anyway).
I've only used the "stab" or "thrust" mainly because I had never thought of, or learned about pull back for that purpose until just yesterday. I will try it next time I'm casting the big rod.
How (without math beyond trigonomerty ) does pullback narrow loops.
And do most of you have generally tighter backcast loops than forward loops when just casting and not thinking about it.
Cheers,
Jim
Hi Jim,
pull back to me means we speed up unrolling. We pull on the rod-leg and therefore the fly-leg will be faster as well.
Since both legs are opposite directed in the speed up the whole loop will not travel any further but shorter mostly. As long as we do not get a benefit by the decreased loop size that will be! Casting against wind the decreased loop size can indeed make a huge advantage then.
So depending on the circumstances it can be an advantage or disadvantage to use it.
Due to the rotation of the rod (on the pull back movement) the tip will be rised/liftet upwards. That brings the rod-leg closer to the fly-leg. In addition the increased speed (and tension) will reduce the size of the loop front as well.
For many great casters I see tighter back loops than front loops. Mostly that is for one reason:
Those who aim for quiet a firm wrist (a lot do) will have a significant later start of rotation on their bc. This is related to the anatomy...
If you watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Kg6985oY0o
Watch 1:07 showing exactly what only very few casters do/can do. It is exactly this what brings in the differency. On the bc many have this late rotation but not on the fc.
You also can start rotation more late by using more wrist on the fc of course...
I have worked on this with many great casters in order to give them identical loop shapes on the fc and bc.
Best (smooth and staple) loops I still see with the almost firm wrists which makes it harder to rotate late on the fc.
That wouldn't surprise me, Marc, I' ve been doing enough of that lately! I start off the day creeping, progress to hobbling, but after I've finished my pot of coffee and a couple aspirin, I do all right.
) does pullback narrow loops.
