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Principles - how many

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victor
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Post by victor »

Nice Robert, even I understood that. Thanks.

Mike
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shielfisher
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Post by shielfisher »

Ben has some video that demonstrates this quite well, I've picked Travis Johnsons' clip but others are available:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxUAmUpAQ-0

Worth noting on that clip where the 'head' has been lifted and what follows from there. I need to get this nailed myself..... badly!
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Post by ennio »

Aitor wrote:Apart from the basic principles which apply to any casting stroke I would add:
1.- An anchor as short as possible (just long enough to prevent it slipping backwards).
2.- A rod leg of the D loop as long as possible (but not so long that the anchor fails, or lifts from the water before finishing the casting stroke).
3.- Rod leg and fly leg of the D loop as parallel and as close to each other as possible, and pointing directly to the target.

Aitor, at the casting club on Sunday I played with the slipping anchor (unfortunately no video: I don't have access to a good camera). We were using a RIO iLine in hi-viz yellow it was really easy for us to see; casting on still water (park lake); only maybe 20' of flyline beyond rod tip for the exercise.

We observed that in a static roll cast my anchor always slipped backwards (as you and Bernd showed so clearly http://vimeo.com/26829591). With a dynamic roll cast (and using either the leader or the flyline as my anchor) there seemed to be no slip; the anchor seemed to "bite".

Is this something you have observed / filmed? I will try to capture this next week using iPad camera.

Andrew
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Bernd
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Post by Bernd »

Casting Matters wrote:The concept of a Chalmers lift, which comes from competition Spey casting is that the rod tip is moved outwards at an angle on the lift to make the change of direction easier. So that the rod tip ends up much closer towards the plane where the back cast D/V loop will be formed than a normal straight lift would allow.
Hi Robert,
does this:
https://vimeo.com/56550960
match with your description?
Happy new year to all of you,
Bernd
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victor
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Post by victor »

I see it better on that clip Bernd. I assume we have missed a bit of Knuts lift?

How curved can the anchor be? I know Andrew Toft doesn't believe it to be necessary.

Mike
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Bernd
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Post by Bernd »

Hi Mike,
Knut quite often did not end up in a straight line and rod tip down surface position before starting the lift.
Instead he straightens the line, yes - but already starts the lift from a position in which the tip is about horizontal position or even higher. So he worked with quite a small lift here.
From what I have seen in Norway Knut has an incredible straight unrolling in his delievery shoot. I call that perfect tracking.
I would not publish other videos I have made from the same position of other casters :cool: .
I think with such a long rod and such high line speed it is important that the anchor will not slip much back. Therefore a strong anchor is often good.
We have seen that with most of the top guys there.
Lasse has some videos of Tellis on his vimeo, too. ;)
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Bernd
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Aitor
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Post by Aitor »

victor wrote:How curved can the anchor be? I know Andrew Toft doesn't believe it to be necessary.
Any anchor shape that doesn’t put the line aligned with the direction of the target wastes energy.
An anchor that forms an angle with the direction of the cast implies that this part of the line must be displaced laterally till it gets aligned with the target.That lateral motion spends line speed that should be used in moving the line forward instead of sideways.
Not very efficient.
Aitor is not like us, he is Spanish, and therefore completely mad.
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Bernd
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Post by Bernd »

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Bernd
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Post by Bernd »

Aitor wrote:Not very efficient.

I disagree. :cool:
If the fluff lands on 58m it was a very efficient cast including the anchor doing it's job well. :D

In our true casting world there are limits when changing the direction about such a high degree with just one sweep.
A theoretically perfect anchor may never be reached here. But this would not mean that the anchor was inefficient imo.

Prost to Bilbao :p
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Aitor
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Post by Aitor »

Bernd wrote:
Aitor wrote:Not very efficient.
I disagree. :cool:
If the fluff lands on 58m it was a very efficient cast including the anchor doing it's job well. :D

In our true casting world there are limits when changing the direction about such a high degree with just one sweep.
A theoretically perfect anchor may never be reached here. But this would not mean that the anchor was inefficient imo.

Prost to Bilbao :p
I agree. :p

Effective and efficient are very different, at least in Spanish.
There isn't a perfect world, and there aren't perfect anchors, but the cast that went 58m would go farther if the line didn't waste speed repositioning an angled anchor. That such a straight anchor is an impossible feat is another matter.

Prost. :cool:
Aitor is not like us, he is Spanish, and therefore completely mad.
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, Paul

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Paul Arden
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Post by Paul Arden »

From an outside perspective I think there is more to be made from the WC in Spey casting - at least from what I saw in Norway. Almost all anchors were crashed and misplaced. I was very surprised, maybe it's the tackle I don't know, but a clean and aligned anchor must result in a greater delivery.

It's not my thing, so who knows? Maybe crap and often crossed anchors result in longer casts. Or maybe we'll see another ten or more metres being made as a result of clean anchors? That's where I'd put my money.

Cheers, Paul
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Bernd
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Post by Bernd »

Can you guys explain me how the theoretically perfect cast would have to be done?

Meaning the one that changes the direction about such a high degree, handling such a long head, showing high tension in the D and being as good in line with the target as possible. And of course having the perfect straight smooth anchor.

In my mind I cannot find a theoretical solution for that type of (Single Spey) cast without loosing some bits of perfection in at least one of the key elements.
Choosing the straight anchor to loose some bits here seems to be a very good choice being made.

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Bernd
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Aitor
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Post by Aitor »

Ideals in life aren't always possible but anyway they are a good reference.

SLP in overhead casting is impossible to achieve but that doesn't deter us from teaching it as something we must try to get.
In such extreme single spey an aligned anchor is impossible to achieve but that doesn't mean that a straight and aligned anchor is not the ideal we must tend to get.

This thread is about principles, isn't it? And principles are always ideals.
Of course maybe you adhere to that philosophical current whose motto is "These are my principles. If you don’t like them I have others." :p
Aitor is not like us, he is Spanish, and therefore completely mad.
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Bernd
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Post by Bernd »

I rarely use "principles" for my teaching, but prefer to use "easy teaching concepts". As you know... those that might help perfectly well in one direction (at the time when being needed) but may not be true in another direction (at a different time).

SLP is not what I teach to be an ideal but a wrong ideal that has been written down in a lot of places, yes.
I prefer to teach the concept of moving the tip as close along a straight line as possible (only for tight loops that is of course). But still the ideal is just close to the straight line path and slightly or partially convex instead of fully straight.
It is possible to demonstrate that too close easily may help to cast the line into the tip (catching up the rod).

In general I prefer to teach how to shape loops differently instead of focussing too much on only tight loops (like I think the SLP concept easily can lead to) :p :cool:

Back to that Single Spey.
In order to get the anchor be in plane with the target and straight in itself ... what tip path would you think of here?
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Aitor
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Post by Aitor »

C) 180° concept: loop + anchor + delievery cast in one plane with the target

Since you yourself wrote that on post 63 it seems to be about "these are my concepts, if you don't like them I have others." :p

Back to that Single Spey.
In order to get the anchor be in plane with the target and straight in itself ... what tip path would you think of here?

Whatever tip path you like, since shape and position of the anchor seem to have no influence in the efficiency of the cast. :)

No more sterile debates, please. :)
Aitor is not like us, he is Spanish, and therefore completely mad.
Cheers
, Paul

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