WF or DT? - Which can you cast farther?

[randyflycaster]

If I remember correctly, I heard Steve Rajeff say that many good casters can cast farther with a DT line than with a WF.

I've assumed this is because the first 60 feet or so of a DT lines weighs less than the first 60 feet of a WF line, and therefore a caster can carry more DF line on his/her false casts.

Is my assumption correct?

And which line can you cast farther: a WF or DT?

Thanks,

Randy

[James9118]

Surely the first 60ft of a DT would weigh more than the WF.

[Lasse Karlsson]

Hi Randy

At 30 feet both the WF and the DT should weigh the same according to AFFTA standard. At 60 feet the DT will usually weigh more than the WF, and at full length the DT is alot heavier. Thing is, a good caster can carry almost all, if not all, of most DT lines and cast them as a shootinghead, a WF really casts best with only the right amount of overhang. So the DT has the definite advantage from the beginning, longer and heavier mass cast.

Cheers
Lasse

[randyflycaster]

Thanks guys. Now I'm curious: If the first 60 feet of the DT weighs more, I would think that it would slow the fly rod down, and therefore limit a caster's distance.

Randy

[Lasse Karlsson]

Hi Randy

The flycast doesn't work that way

http://vimeo.com/35066178

Cheers
Lasse

[VGB]

There is some good information here:

http://www.rodbuildingforum.com/index.p....+weight

regards

Vince

[randyflycaster]

Thanks again. I can't say I understand the rod stress curves, but it seems to me, as a caster carries more and more overhang, at some point the weight of the line will start to slow the rod down. In my mind, therefore, to make the longest possible cast, a caster must carry the ideal amount of overhang, not too much or too little.

Randy

[VGB]

Hi Randy

The link was only meant to be informative of line weights, I would not get too wrapped around the axle for stress curves. I'll leave discussions on overhand to Lasse, I cannot cast that far

regards

Vince

[Lasse Karlsson]

Hi Randy

It's not that the rod slows down, it is simply that with overhang on a WF/Shootinghead/DT(last one really means alot of backing outside the tiptop, rarely seen) the loop starts to fall apart, it's not stable if it has to start far into the runningline and then move over to thicker flyline. A stable loop is better than an unstable one, and with a WF versus a DT the DT starts out not only longer but also more stable.

Example WF has 40 feet head, good amount of overhang is 10 feet to allow for the haul. So 50 feet arialized for a distance cast
DT is 90 feet and a good caster puts 75 feet outside the tip. DT leads by 25 feet before the shot...

Cheers
Lasse

Ps. Vince, it goes for spey too :p

[Silver Creek]

Aren't the long belly competition WF lines tailored to eliminate overhang? If these WF lines are not more efficient that DT line, why was one used for this test instead of a DT line?

http://www.sexyloops.com/articles/8rod.shtml

http://www.rioproducts.com/fly-lin....rnament

Are the lines in the article below a DTs, WFs or a mix of the two.

http://www.sexyloops.co.uk/iB_html....9_9.pdf

[Lasse Karlsson]

Hi Silver

I guess they used a XXD in the test because it is a popular line in competitions and that makes it easier to compare.

And longbelly lines aren't made to eliminate overhang, just to get a longer working length of line in front of the overhang.

And the three lines in the study by Ulrik and Paul are all longbelly lines, the two prototypes are commercially available know, well one, since the other one just got replaced by another one

Look to the reason for the study

And lastly, very few can arialise a full DT, let alone have the backcast space needed for that. If you make a comparision between a WF and a DT and limit the room to the WF's advantage, guess who wins :p
Long belly WF's are to get closer to the advantages of the DT

Cheers
Lasse

[randyflycaster]

Lasse,

Thanks so, so much for your explanation. I learned a lot.

It seems that learning about long-distance fly casting never ends. I guess that's the way it should be.

Randy

[Silver Creek]

I'd like to add my thanks as well. Rflycaster and I have been trying to get to the bottom of the WF vs DT question.

To clarify what "longbelly" means. Does it apply to both DT and WF lines? And if it does, what type of fly line does it typically mean for most fly fishers, and in the case of competition lines what does it typically mean.

[Lasse Karlsson]

Hi Silver

It depends on the person you ask

Generally a DT is a DT. There's some funky tapers out there called DT's. But for the majority, it's a taper, a long level piece and then a taper.

A WF is a taper, a level piece, then a taper and then a longer thinner level piece. Usually the head portion (taper/ level/taper) is around 35-45 feet
Longer than that and they are usually called long bellies, shorter and they are called short bellies :p So a long belly is a WF line.

A long belly for a competition caster is usually something with a head length of 60+ feet and usually they have some funky tapers to them. They don't really need it, but it seems to be a market trend

Cheers
Lasse

[Marc LaMouche]

generically, here's what they look like.