Style - How do you deal with it?

[Morsie]

Frank as an instructor how do you deal with 'style'? If someone comes to you for a lesson and their particular style doesn't fit with your ideal casting style do you set out to change/correct their style, to make it more like your ideal?

Thanks, Morsie

[victor]

Style is an interesting question. One of the main reasons I joined the FFF rather than a domestic organisation was their style free ethos. It does have some interesting side effects though. I am now an almost 'style free' fascist interfere with my style at your peril. Tell me I should be standing like this, my elbow should be here and I should hold the rod like that and you are putting yourself in the firing line for some verbal abuse.
When instructing there is always the balance between messing with someones style and curing a fault that may be stye induced.

Style is a personal picknmix of things that you have found work for you and my style changes on an almost weekly basis, especially as I learn new stuff as I prep for the masters.

Mike

[Paul Arden]

I have a different take on this but I'll allow Frank to answer first.

[Frank LoPresti]

style free ethos.

Morsie,

Mikes words echo my approach. Additionally, if someone comes to me and they are a pretty good caster more or less, I just look to tweak whatever style they bring to the table. If they have no sense of style then we work out which style is best suited to whatever it is they are trying to accomplish. I have no ideal casting style. I have several styles I like to cast in depending upon what I am trying to achieve or "work out," at the time

Frank

[Paul Arden]

Yeah I have a different approach on this. How do you know that the style that they use is appropriate to them and what they're trying to achieve?

[Frank LoPresti]

That's simple enough to figure out.

[Morsie]

Well it must also be pretty simple to spell out then Frank..........

Mike what if someone suggested a tweak that might add another 6 feet to your best how would you react?

I think if an instructor can give a very good reason to alter a style then he should. I don't think small tweaks amount to altering style. I think of style broadly as those defined by Al Kyte, however it also goes a lot further than that now with the 170 style. I know one great local distance caster who when distance casting uses a mix of styles between back cast, forward cast and then the delivery cast, there's all kinds of stroke elements mixed in there in different proportions according to how much line he has out and the conditions. He throws into the 130's pretty consistently. Without drag he wouldn't though.

Morsie

[Paul Arden]

I think the more styles a caster can use, the more rounded a caster he becomes. Teach someone Jason Borger's foundation stroke for accuracy. Teach someone Lefty's style for weighted flies. Teach Rajeff's delivery for heads. Teach the 170 for extreme carry.

Most self-taught casters have arrived at their style through by combining experiment with stuff they've read and by watching fellow casters. Often it's actually better to offer a major change than a small one because it's easier to make a major change in muscle memory.

Being limited to just one style is like being limited to just one dance. You don't dance tango to techno.

Cheers Paul

[VoodooChild]

In Bruce Lee kind of a way: Is not the ultimate style to have no style at all? One should be able to adapt to any given situation and stroke the rod in such a way as to produce a desirable cast, be it presenting a fly to a fish or competing in a shootout.
Yes there is intent, by necessity, the caster must know what they are trying to accomplish and have enough education and experience to execute.
As teachers we should try to give our students as much exposure to different approaches as possible. If there is more than one way to skin a cat, then skin all the cats in the neighborhood if that’s what it takes to give a complete lesson.
Peace
-Marshall

[Frank LoPresti]

Well it must also be pretty simple to spell out then Frank..........

Mike what if someone suggested a tweak that might add another 6 feet to your best how would you react?

And without drag there are those casters that reach into the 130's as well. Neither style is a lock on assured distance by any stretch of the measuring tape.

Each caster is different, so no, it's not that simple to spell out nor do small tweaks go to altering style, they go to refining a style. A small tweak might be wrist rotation of 3 degrees. A small tweak might be an extension of the haul lenght, a small tweak might involve hand pressure on the rod butt. A small tweak might involve a thrust. A small tweak might involve timing. A small tweak might involve a slower line feed or no feed at all. Small tweaks are the essence on any instructors ability to turn a so so cast into a very good one. So much for the emoticons.

Major overhauls are a different matter entirely.



Frank

[Frank LoPresti]

I think the more styles a caster can use, the more rounded a caster he becomes.

Most self-taught Often it's actually better to offer a major change than a small one because it's easier to make a major change in muscle memory.

like being limited to just one dance. You don't dance tango to techno.

That's a bit of a stretch to assume that the majority of casters want to even take the time to learn to cast for extreme distance. The majority simply do not. Nor do they have the time to learn different styles of casting.

There are no real secrets to casting a head it ain't that complicated. Not all casters want to be well rounded, they want or only have the time to fish and practice a little casting . Unless you work in the biz most casters simply want to b e able to cast a line at best to around 80 feet. The rest of us have far to much time on our hands.

Small changes are sometimes are all that are needed, but even small changes take a long time to internalize, as do the major changes. Don't underrate small changes, small changes often result in dramatic results. I tweak my own cast constantly.

Being limited to one style allows you to catch fish and cast a long line, just ask Lefty. You can do a Texas Two Step with any cast or dance partner you like.

Frank

[Paul Arden]

That's a bit of a stretch to assume that the majority of casters want to even take the time to learn to cast for extreme distance. The majority simply do not. Nor do they have the time to learn different styles of casting.

Who said anything about the majority? The majority of flycasters have no interest in learning to cast better anyway. And it's only a small specialist minority of those who actually are, who are interested in competition techniques.

Would you teach Lefty's Oval Stroke for target casting or casting into a headwind? Would you teach a straight up and down accuracy stroke for casting with a tail wind?

[Frank LoPresti]

The majority of flycasters have no interest in learning to cast better anyway.

I would disagree with the first senternce entirely.

As to the Lefty question. I prefer the non oval motion most of the time in my casting. That said I also use an oval stroke in vertical rod planes as well. Oval strokes are not just about offside casting even though most casters think that they are just that, offside casts only. That's because they essentially were never taught by Lefty or anyone else for that matter how to oval cast using a vertical rod orientation.

Joan Wulff showed me that 20 years ago, she called it rounding, I think. So with our without rounding, my vertical stroke is accurate to within a tea cup or strong enough to buck a head wind. Lets see, a tail wind...How many knots is your tail wind blowing, 28 ?

Frank

[Paul Arden]

We have around 200,000 FFs in UK and instructors are not very busy. You have what? 1 million? If they're interested you must be run off your feet! In the UK they say "I can't cast but I catch fish!". I definitely teach a minority!

Oval cast is great for casting with the wind, it gives you the low backcast necessary. It doesnt give you the high straight backcast necessary for ring accuracy however. Style or technique? Seems that both are essential for an effective caster.

Cheers Paul

[Frank LoPresti]

Oval casting with the wind gives you the low backcast necessary.

Necessary for what ?

Frank