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Drift

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Stoatstail50
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Post by Stoatstail50 »

Maybe you didn't read the words ......

Many threads ago I pointed out to you that you cannot apply the principles adopted by one model to analyse the other...this is specifically true of rates of acceleration, force, power etc. which are used, entirely arbitrarily and wholly ineffectively, to differentiate between terms in your set but are not used in this way in the SL model. If you paid attention you would be able to read that I wrote, not that speed is "totally irrelevant", but that it is "terminologically irrelevant" in the SL set.
This doesn't make these things analytically irrelevant, on the contrary, they are completely free to be applied as we apply them every single time we teach or analyse a real world cast.

A "Sweep" has as its primary purpose the repositioning of line. A "Sweep" that is overpowered and forms a loop is an Overpowered Sweep in SL world...in yours it is a Casting Stroke...and anyway you don't have a term for Sweep.

If you overpower "Drift" in SL world it remains overpowered Drift and not Sweep even though it may have a dramatic effect on the line, and a slow "Lift" at the beginning of a PU&LD remains a "Lift" even though in your terms it is indistinguishable from "Creep".

Nobody is making you use these terms Frank, and if you like the ones you have been using for the last few centuries then hooray, sadly when challenged to describe basic casts elsewhere on the board using the proposed terms you were incapable of doing so because they are incomplete, so, if I remember correctly you had to borrow a few from that old historical handbag.

Finally, I think that making a decision to drift forwards or not to drift forwards is a perfect example of the exercise of judgement in fitting the cast to the objective and what the result actually turns out to be is is as a consequence of the exercise of control.

Have a nice trip... :)
Casting Definitions

Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after.
gordonjudd
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Post by gordonjudd »

I think Kyte makes it all pretty clear, you do not want to Creep, "drift" the rod tip forward during the early stages of the casting stroke. Makes good casting sense.

Frank,
Can you give me a link to Al's discussion of drift and creep and where it is applied at the start of the casting stroke? I do not see either term used in his Substance and Style article.

He does talk about drift in his book, but talks about doing it as the line is rolling out on the backcast. i.e. a follow through move after the stop on the backcast. That is in line with the SL definition of drift being:
Drift: To position the rod between casting strokes.
He says:
Advantages of back-cast drift
Whether you slide your hand back, increase rod angle, or combine the two your drift is moving the rod tip back to set up a longer rod movement for the next forward cast

I see no mention of relating drift (or creep) to something that would be associated with the way you start the rod movement on the forward cast.

Where do you see where he makes it "pretty clear" that you do not want to start the forward cast with a slow constant angular velocity that fits with your description of having creep at the start of the cast?

I would think he would be open to starting the cast with any smooth motion as long as the resulting cast fit with the intent of the caster.

Do you have some CA files that begin with a slow constant angular velocity for some length of time before the acceleration of the turn over is started? Would Aitor's example of a slow initial rotation prior to making a cast with no tailing loop fit that criteria?

It would be great if you had a video file to go with it so you could see that this creep move happened at the start of the forward cast not between the casting strokes.

Thanks and have a great time on your month long trip.
Gordy
"Flyfishing: 200 years of tradition unencumbered by progress." Ralph Cutter
Frank LoPresti
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Post by Frank LoPresti »

Stoatstail50 wrote:Nobody is making you use these terms Frank


Finally, I think that making a decision to drift forwards or not to drift forwards is a perfect example of the exercise of judgement.

Hi Mark,

Maybe you did not entirely process the words of your fearless leader who is is suggesting that if the world does not adopt his casting terminology the rest of the casting world and casting instructors will be crucified ! He said that 4 or 5 times already ? Unreal shit that I have never heard before :oh: Testosterone rocks dude. Sure mate, save it for the chicks. :O

As to your last comment Mark, you previously noted that you would do everything possible to avoid bad judgement, as you, HAVE ALREADY COPPED to doing everything in your power, to avoid exactly what the SL terminology suggests is highly improbable, that is to say, drift without power during the early stages of the casting stroke whence trying to propagate a loop without a tail and landing the fly in the ring with no drift off the backcast Yeah right amigo, like we were born yesterday as a result of limp dicks.

No problem Mark you rock, it's all good........

Cheers,
Frank
I would have a major effect on how I train instructors.
Paul Arden
Frank LoPresti
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Post by Frank LoPresti »

Stoatstail50 wrote:SL set means that you can slot in terms when you need them..... :)

Anyway, in the example you are putting I would try very hard not to do any of these things.
No kidding Mark, what lead you to that conclusion ? Common casting sense ?

You rock dude !

Cheers,

Frank..............

Slot that will ya...............
I would have a major effect on how I train instructors.
Paul Arden
gordonjudd
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Post by gordonjudd »

suggesting that if the world does not adopt his casting terminology the rest of the casting world and casting instructors will be crucified ! He said that 4 or 5 times already ?

Frank,

Can you show me one direct quote of Paul's that said if the world does not adopt his casting terminology the rest of the casting world will be crucified? I do not need 4 or 5, just one will do.

I found the word crucified here:
The point is of course that these definitions are going to be debated when released - and crucified.

But that was trying to make the point that the time to discuss a set of definitions with people who might have a different point of view is before they are released not after.

Also he is saying that it is different aspects of the definitions will be crucified, not the rest of the casting world or other instructors.

Accurate attributions count for something, Frank. Anything else is being dishonest.

Gordy
"Flyfishing: 200 years of tradition unencumbered by progress." Ralph Cutter
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