TOO LONG! - More terms please

[rusty00]

Does anyone know the term for what happens when casting too long of head?

[Paul Arden]

Christ!!!

[VoodooChild]

Does anyone know the term for what happens when casting too long of head?

Is this a riddle?

[Dave Alexander]

Does anyone know the term for what happens when casting too long of head?

I thinks it called Hangover!

[Lasse Karlsson]

Does anyone know the term for what happens when casting too long of head?

Nothing.....

[wjc]

I really hate to hijack this thread but I desperately need to know who knows the term for casting a head not too short and not too long, but just right? :whistling:

[Lasse Karlsson]

I really hate to hijack this thread but I desperately need to know who knows the term for casting a head not too short and not too long, but just right? :whistling:

Bliss.....


:yeahhh: :whistling: :;):

[Marc LaMouche]

[flyfishfairwx]

Isn't too long or too short of a head , something that should be discussed on a Porn site.

Should not "hangover be discussed on a beer porn site?

:p :whistling:

[easterncaster]

rusty,

are you thinking of the term "hinging" ?

craig

[Paul Arden]

Hi Rusty, you started an interesting thread when you asked for the term for casting too short a head, none of the answers fit when considered with respect to asking for the term for too long a head! Can you please explain what you mean by either question? Better that you answer here since the other thread has taken life of its own.

Do you mean that the head itself is too short or too long? Because no one will agree with you if that's what you mean, and I can explain why.

Cheers, Paul

[rusty00]

Paul,
Thank you for taking a look at my question.

I'm simply trying to work out some terms for what happens to the loop when casting a fly line head that is the right weight by the wrong length.

Or can you explain why there is no such thing as "wrong length"

EXAMPLE:
9ft 6wt rod, 6wt 60ft head
It would seem that at some point the loop fails if you use try to use this setup even if you max out the power of the rod. This length of head would be better used on a heavier rod that has a more powerful cast. The problem is basically not having enough power to turn-over that much head.

9ft 6wt rod, 6wt 20ft head
I believe the best way to describe the problem with using this setup is to say that there is so much power in the loop that it doesn't turn-over properly. I guess its like the opposite of a delicate presentation.

Does this make sense to anyone or should I scrap this theory?

[Paul Arden]

Hi Rusty,
OK, I understand what you're saying. But I disagree. I'll give you an example, with my preferred 6 weight rod, it feels right for me casting 10ft, and also carrying 90ft of DT line. The rod obviously flexes more with the greater carry and so I adjust the stroke and casting arc to suit.

I don't think that there is an ideal weight for a given fly rod to be cast, but I can see why you would think that, as others do too, possibly because of the way that Shooting Heads are marketed.

Cheers, Paul

[Rudi Ferris]

Thanks Rusty and Paul, both for persevering!

The shorter head is a lot tougher to cast well, Rusty. That’s because of its tendency to turnover too rapidly…..and 20 foot is a really short head! The longer one can be cast very well with your tackle but you’ll have to make some adjustments all of which any number of folk here would willingly advise and assist you with.

-------------------

Paul brought up a good point and one that those who carry long lengths of WF are familiar with: by the time they have aerialized 80 or more feet of #5 flyline, it represents a shooting head that is about 4-5 line sizes over the rating of their rods…..But it can still be cast and those who do this feel comfortable with that.

However, with the shooting head you may be looking for a different effect when fishing and a line more closely matched to the stiffness of the rod. I suggest you cut that 60 foot head (or get another shorter one) to reduce mostly the length. When you get a feel for that, you’ll be able to fool around with some other balances and eventually, end up comfortable with all sorts of combinations.

People choose all sorts of balances with a shooting head. I like mine a bit lighter for the rod’s stiffness, others like heavier. It becomes a personal thing, but the more casting with it you do, likely the more open you’ll be to try other things.

But maybe right now, just get your feet on the ground with a good falsecasting sequence and a reliable shoot and turnover. Don't worry about distance, just get your hauls, stroke and release smooth. You don't have to be expert with it to make it effective for fishing.

Good luck!

PS.....Paul, no one in the whole wide world has ever marketed a shooting head to me, and I have pretty strong beliefs in rod to line balancing for that gear Though it may vary a bit from what the marketing does say :p

[wjc]

Rusty,

You're back! After a month and a half of posts on the "too short" topic with no feedback from you, you have to expect human cruelty and joke making to kick in. But at least it's been about equally balanced

I don't know that there even are any specific terms for what you are describing. If you are using a good casting stroke and the rod seems to be overpowered by the load, I'd just say that the rod is not powerful enough for the load and is "overloading".

I think you are casting not shooting heads, but integrated (full-length) fly lines. Is this correct?

Their "numbered weights" are based on the actual weight of the first 30 feet of line - regardless of the length of the head.

I worked out the actual line number that Paul is casting with a carry of 86 feet of Sci. Anglers Mastery Extreme Distance 5 wt fly line. Paul casts, with a Sage TCR rod labeled a 5 weight, the equivalent of 30 feet of 12 wt line. But he's a very accomplished big, strong caster with strong arms, great core strength, and an ample core guard protecting that core strength.

I'm old, weak, with skinny arms and without the core strength - just a good core guard - so I can't carry that much line. However, that same line works well for me too, at all ranges, on an identical rod because the taper is very long - 68 feet as I recall in a 5 wt. That line is also a compound tapered line, which helps as well.

In general, I think the longer the taper, the more versatile the line. Even with a moderate caster.

Conversely, the shorter the head, the more concentrated the weight and the more difficult to control for a soft presentation. This is why they are mostly used for salt water and steelhead fshing on bigger waters.

To make selecting lines worse, even Paul would not be able to carry 86' of that same line on many other rods labeled a 5 wt without either breaking them, or having them overload to uslessness for the cast - becoming so "mushy" the line just colapsed.

So all he would do with such a rod is to shorten his carry in that specific instance. That's the reason for his statement regarding weights and rods.

I haven't messed with a shooting head and monofilament since the 70's because I don't do that kind of fishing anymore, and didn't like the tangles anyhow.

Rudi and many others here do though, and are very good at it, making up their own shooting heads from old lines destined otherwise for the garbage can.

So either way, there is plenty of casting and technical help here - so long as it doesn't involve terminology or definitions.

Cheers,
Jim