The main benefits of translation go to applying force over a longer distance...
Frank what's the formula for Work?
One point Andy's drawing make clear is there is a difference between the torque and force we apply to the rod butt and the force applied to the line at the rod tip.
Of course Magnus. Other than the fact that the translational length of the casting arc would not be the force that is acting on the rod tip that goes to loop formation. The dominating force that is applied to the rod butt as it goes to loop formation is angular acceleration. Adding length to the arc simply allows you to work the force over a longer translational distance.
Frank
I would have a major effect on how I train instructors.
Paul Arden
Casting with just the wrist in diagram 1. Okay that's fine but no on one is advocating using just the wrist. What you need is a simple diagram that shows the elbow dropping and the fore arm opening up automatically as a result of that drop. What your left with is simply arc with no translation. To that simple arc I flip the wrist at the end. Can you add that diagram and show me where the rod was translated.
Thanks
I would have a major effect on how I train instructors.
Paul Arden
One more thing about the diagrams that you may not be thinking of. You have translation marked drawn across the top of the diagrams. I don't know if you did that intentionally or not because that's not translation that's just a straight line you have drawn. Do you see what I'm getting at ?
I would have a major effect on how I train instructors.
Paul Arden
my point was, were you guys classing that movement as translation, or was translation a movement that only happens at the bottom of the rod?
And to your first point, i would refer to graph 2, as i have questioned that movement. It isnt purely rotational because there is lateral movement.
Simple exercise. Stand (or sit) with your finger on your nose. Now let the hand drop so you're pointing away from you, by opening your elbow. You will notice your hand is now a little further away from your person. For it to now be further away from you has it not translated? As far as i am aware rotation is an action with no lateral movement?
"God's always with me;
standing beside me with his big black dick."
Only at the bottom as rod lengths do vary. So the distance the rod tip travels from point to point will not have a direct bearing on loop formation. Not as far as I can figure.
so the movement away from your body wasnt solely rotational, but there was no translation either? Frank have you invented a new third movement?! This could be a monumental breakthrough!
"God's always with me;
standing beside me with his big black dick."
Well I assume you are referring to the casting arc in the PDF. Sure my arm moved away from the body, but it did so rotationally without adding any translational length to the arc. The arc is simply the angle of change between the rod at the start and end of the stroke. The distance of hand travel for that cast would have been over lets say whatever x number of degrees it was. No third movement there as far as I can I tell.
Frank
I would have a major effect on how I train instructors.
Paul Arden
I haven't read your pdf yet. I was referring to my little exercise where you dropped your finger from your nose to pointing away from you.
Now, you're very lucky this evening, I've taken the time to create another masterpiece (you know, if the FFF need a Head of Graphic Fly Casting Demonstration then I'd be willing to talk) to explain where i'm coming from.
I'm not going to claim to be right, but in my opinion the ony truly non-translational cast is the wrist only cast in graph 1.
Attachments
translation.JPG (9.95 KiB) Viewed 1924 times
"God's always with me;
standing beside me with his big black dick."
Thanks Andy for the awesome diagram ! So shoulder rotation is translational ? How so. Remember the downward rotation of the elbow has to start with rotation from the shoulder. That and the rod is rotating during that rotational drop of the elbow. Sure you can subtend a straight line from start to stop. But that's not translation. That's just a straight line you have drawn from the start of rotation to the stop of rotation showing the approximate path of the rod hand as it rotated along a mostly straight line path to the target.
Frank
I would have a major effect on how I train instructors.
Paul Arden
Oh Frank, maybe this is where you say potato and the rest of the world says tomato. for a change..
This is what paul said and I agree with it. And I think you do too.
I think for translation and rotation we are discussing the rod only. Not what it is connected to
The PDF you posted to give examples of the different rod movements features the rod only, not the movement of the arm. And when I asked you..
were you guys classing that movement as translation, or was translation a movement that only happens at the bottom of the rod?
You said..
Only at the bottom
so if translation is viewed as a movement at the bottom of the rod as opposed to an anatomical movement, why is rotation different?
"God's always with me;
standing beside me with his big black dick."
The length of the casting stroke is simply showing that the hand moves a certain distance during the casting stroke, from start to stop. Rod length varies and for a 10 foot rod the rod tip from start to stop would move a foot more for the same length of stroke at the butt end of the rod. so the true measure of hand travel would be from the butt not tip to tip.
The diagrams I put up are for both basic rod and hand movements. I don't think that anatomically speaking there can be any motions of the body that could be considered as purely translational, as something has to rotate in order for something else to move.
Frank
I would have a major effect on how I train instructors.
Paul Arden
so, in a nutshell frank, do you think that the terms 'translation' and 'rotation' are used to describe anatomical movements or movements the rod makes?
"God's always with me;
standing beside me with his big black dick."
