Equator Model

Frank LoPresti · Post by **Frank LoPresti** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:13 pm

In your model creep and drift are transitional and a part of your casting stroke model, but not always. A bit confusing to say the least.

The graphic clears that up as there are no transitions or no gray shadowy areas of confusion as to what goes to what.

Frank

Paul Arden · Post by **Paul Arden** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:33 am

Right so when does Creep become CS then?!

Frank LoPresti · Post by **Frank LoPresti** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:57 pm

Right. Well I figured you get around to asking that question once again and I'm glad you did because that's the one question you have that you believe fuels this debate. You've been asking the wrong question all along I'm afraid to say.

The obvious answer is that the fix for creep is not applied to the rod butt once the caster ends his creep. You can't go back undo that action, nor can you fix it after the fact. If you could actually do that, then you could eliminate creep as a contributing cause for tailing loops once and for all. But no one I know can actually do that, or has done just that, because if they did, or could show us how it's done and up with a perfect loop, they'ed have to be elected into a casting instructors Hall of Fame.

The immediate issue which is central to the topic occurs at the of beginning of the CS, with slow sustained angular rod movement.

Frank

Paul Arden · Post by **Paul Arden** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:10 pm

Slow sustained angular acceleration therefore in your model is the beginning of the CS. And it is not possible for any CS to begin any other way. Really?

Frank LoPresti · Post by **Frank LoPresti** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:27 pm

Paul Arden wrote:Slow sustained angular acceleration therefore in your model is the beginning of the CS. And it is not possible for any CS to begin any other way. Really?

If something starts out slow and remains slow it is no longer accelerating, it is simply sustaining the same slow speed. That's not how I would want to start a casting stroke or continue one. Slow and sustained angular rod motion in the graphic is isolated from the casting stroke in that graphic as is rotational drift as well as translational drift.

As far as I know all casting strokes that lead to well formed loops do not start out slow and remain slow for however long. That they do start out that way sometimes is something we all try to go back and correct for.

Paul Arden · Post by **Paul Arden** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:34 pm

Of course I know you know how to make a casting stoke form a nice loop, however do ALL casting strokes produce nice loops? That seems to be the basis behind your model.

Frank LoPresti · Post by **Frank LoPresti** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:46 pm

Lets just say that there is pretty much one way to throw a nice loop and there's a lot of consensus on that point, with smooth gradual near constant acceleration and an infinite number of ways to throw not so nice loops. So yes the basis of the graphic is biased to the well formed loop, as am I. I don't have any problem with that.

Frank

Paul Arden · Post by **Paul Arden** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:52 pm

We don't consider creep to he part of the CS because the caster has not begun the CS in his own mind yet. You're trying to base definitions around rod motion and not the driver.

How do you teach someone to throw a tight loop?

Paul Arden · Post by **Paul Arden** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:56 pm

Cross-posted. So there's an infinite number of ways not to cast a nice loop and none of them are covered by your model of CS?

Frank LoPresti · Post by **Frank LoPresti** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:08 pm

Right. The CS is the model stroke that offers up the ideal or model loop. You can add any of the motions outside of the CS to the CS, no problem, to do whatever you like. But the CS, CA and SL are all linked to a common objective in mind.

Paul Arden · Post by **Paul Arden** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:13 pm

So it's an ideal model of the CS? Then WTF is Creep doing in there?

Paul Arden · Post by **Paul Arden** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:20 pm

The problem I have with your model - amongst other things - is that non-ideal CSs do not exist, they are simply not CSs.

So let's apply it. How do you personally teach someone to throw a tight loop?

Frank LoPresti · Post by **Frank LoPresti** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:29 pm

Paul Arden wrote:We don't consider creep to he part of the CS because the caster has not begun the CS in his own mind yet.

Who is we ? You got some clinical psychiatrists on your panel of experts now ? What I'll tell you is this, whether or not you think the caster has or has not begun the the CS in his mind yet is immaterial, that he has begun the stroke with slow sustained angular rod rotation is. I might not have been aware that I was doing 85 in 65 but I assure you it makes no difference in the outcome, I get heavily fined and the caster gets fined with a tail in his loop. The driver controls the car as a vehicle to get from one place to another just as the caster controls the rod as a vehicle to get from one place to another.

Now put me back in the car and knowingly do 85 in a 65 and the outcome will be the same, just as it will be for the caster who knowingly starts a cast and sustains it with slow angular rod motion. Same fine, same tail shows up in the casters line.

Frank LoPresti · Post by **Frank LoPresti** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:34 pm

Paul Arden wrote:The problem I have with your model - amongst other things - is that non-ideal CSs do not exist, they are simply not CSs.

I don't base my instruction around the imperfect casting model otherwise why bother paying me. Your insistence that the model excludes imperfect casts is hot air. Take creep and start the CS with that.

Whose stopping you ???????

Paul Arden · Post by **Paul Arden** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:34 pm

Right, so your model is based around outcome? So how do you teach nice loops?

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