Juergen Friesenhahn wrote:Pull the line on an incline with an ultrasmooth tempo.
OK Juergen, simplifying things immensely...
Basically, I know that I have to apply force to overcome the inertia of the rod, the line and the surface tension to achieve a particular line velocity....I can do that over a short distance with a lot of force or a long distance with less force....one way will be over pretty quickly the other will take a bit longer.
That is, the time it takes for the line to become airborne at the optimal velocity is linked to the level of force I apply to the rod and the distance over which I choose to apply it. If we know that the final line velocity is the same but we have achieved it over two different periods of time then we also know that the acceleration of the line, the rate of change in its velocity, must have also been different.
So in both the cases of "time" and, for the sake of this discussion, "speed" there is an unequivocal link to force or effort.
Whether I apply this force smoothly or not is a matter of skill and judgement, if I have the skill then I can do this smoothly either way. (Actually, on that basis, its probably better if we think about you doing it, not me... )
Would you now change the tempo of the cast dramatically?
My problem..., which, such as it is, wasn't very big at the start of this thread but seems to be escalating with worrying rapidity...is that I dont know what "tempo" is with respect to Speys and I just wanted a brief explanation. So, I dont know if I would change it or not because I dont know WTF it is that I would be changing.... :oh:
Can you tell me what the tempo of the whole cast should be and how that relates to either the time and/or speed used to unstick the line from the water ?
As an experienced musician, can you tell me what an "ultra smooth" tempo is ? or even just an "ordinary smooth" tempo ? and what happens when you change tempo ? how does this then translate to Spey casts ? and if it refers to either time or speed, how, on the basis of the points made in the first bit of this post, you can disassociate these things from force or effort....
When we've sorted that out, everything will be cool....mainly...
Would you now change the tempo of the cast dramatically?
And...whatever "tempo" actually means..I reckon it would change pretty dramatically if you stopped making any effort at all wouldn't it?, presumably "tempo" would be lost, it would just stop altogether....that makes "effort" and "tempo" quite interdependent really doesn't it ?
Would you now change the tempo of the cast dramatically?
And...whatever "tempo" actually means..I reckon it would change pretty dramatically if you stopped making any effort at all wouldn't it?, presumably "tempo" would be lost, it would just stop altogether....that makes "effort" and "tempo" quite interdependent really doesn't it ?
So it follows that tempo is therefore a description of how effort flows over time.
The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
I think what I'm disagreeing on Mac, and I'm going to disagree with Juergen now too, is that we apply more force to the rod to lift the line from the water than we do once it's aerialised, I mean while we can do this I don't think we want to, not if we want a clean pickup with no water disturbance. So I think the lift should be slow and smooth, and doesn't significantly flex the rod.
I have no idea how tempo applies to this and don't see how it can. I thought tempo was between the separate repositioning motions and casting stroke, a way of linking them together, that while is obviously completely untrue in most circumstances helps provide the glue.
Would you now change the tempo of the cast dramatically?
No answers yet only assumed exceptions.
@ Paul:
coming back to my example.
Standard DH-rod (and not a broomstick) of 15ft / #10 with a 75ft head.
The head is outside the rodtip, what is kind of normal, casting longbellylines. Add the leader and you have 85 - 90ft outsinde the rodtip.
Your opinion is, that the rod doesn't bend significantly, if you carry ca. 900grains of weight, even with a lift?
Do you think so?
To clarify the rule I even sugggested to do no lift, only a pull. And even a pull can be done without disturbing the water significantly, when done "(últra)smooth but strong".
In my book and language "Tempo" simply means speed.
In musical terms, a drummer adjusts the tempo of a musical piece with the time he chooses between the notes, for example quarternotes. If he takes more time inbetween, the tempo is slow, if he takes less time, the tempo is faster. If he is shortening up the pauses gradually, the tempo gets faster "accelerando" the opposite would be "ritardando".
And we germans use regularly the (fuck- ) term "tempo" because we are partially rooted in the latin language.
Tempo comes from latin "tempus", the measurement of time. We even have a so called "tempolimit 130km" on the streets of germany. And, in a "german teachinglanguage", I use the sometimes the term "tempo" instead of speed for hypernervous students, trying to let them think in a more slower "musical swinging context", than in "vast speed".
So, lets just drop the *&^%*^% term "tempo" and use the words "speed" and or "time".
Would you now change the tempo of the cast dramatically?
Lets say we're changing nothing, OK...
...if you are going to maintain or regulate this speed, or velocity, or regulate the time that it takes to complete the cast, are you going to use something other than the regulation of "effort", ie. the use of more or less force, in order to do it....? I'd be quite surprised if you were....
I'm beginning to think that this...
that force applied is separate from the tempo of the cast...
...just means that to maintain a regular overall speed throughout the cast doesn't mean that you maintain a regular overall force throughout the cast. Represented graphically they would be very different. In fact you absolutely must vary the appliction of force to maintain the speed.
This is not at all the same as saying that they are "separate" or imply that there is no link between the two.
In fact, as far as I can see, how you the caster regulate the application of force is the only means of regulating the "speed", velocity, or the "(fuck- ) tempo"..whatever it is.
...unless you have special powers....
And we germans use regularly the (fuck- ) term "tempo" because we are partially rooted in the latin language.
Thats interesting, we English regularly use the term "fuck" because we are partially rooted in germanic languages...
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