Tempo

[Marc LaMouche]

here's an interesting one. we could just attach a line to the tip and see what happens

[Paul Arden]

Oh I'm sure the rod bends significantly under such circumstances, Juergen, but as we know rod loading can be a bit of a red herring in these circumstances. The purpose of the lift is to aerielise the line and the purpose of the upstream Sweep is to reposition the it. Rod loading won't do this without leverage and leverage is by far the prominent factor (rod loading being around 15-20%).

If you bend the rod against the line and then immediately stop once the line breaks the surface nothing much is going to happen; the line will drop to the surface again - it does when I cast anyway!

Cheers, Paul

[Juergen Friesenhahn]

here's an interesting one. we could just attach a line to the tip and see what happens

Marc, and you are the one, who attaches the line!

I'll sell the seats on the wall in the back of this happening to the highest bidder...



J.

[Marc LaMouche]

well, there's too much blah-blah-blah going on. it's time we took a scientific approach !

[Aitor]

So it seems, Mark, that we can change acceleration without changing velocity?

[Stoatstail50]

Not in any way that I understand velocity or acceleration Aitor...only in a magical, special powers sort of way would such a thing be possible.

[springer]

Loads on tempo Andrew, in this case it seems to me to be about varying speed..

Al Buhr

Alan (Springer) refers to tempoon his site too.

I think the idea if tempo in Spey casting is just to give your movements fluidity.

You don't think its about speed then ?

Hi Mark,

Thanks for linking to my site, it was recently upgraded and I hadnt checked the content, the program I used to move the content has seriously effected the punctuation, another job for the weekend now

Back to the topic.

I use the term tempo as a way to describe both motion (of varying speeds) and pauses.

As has been pointed out already the word tempo comes from a musical background and suggestive of the speed of the music, it is also used in dancing to describe the speed of the dance. Both music and dance can have a number of different speeds at varying times within them, they can also have pauses or times when they tread water while waiting for something to happen.

I think the use of the word tempo is just like the word speed, it covers quite a broad spectrum of movement. I mainly talk about tempo when describing a persons attitude and action to fly casting, either spey or OH.

To use the dancing analogy again, waltz is slow tempo, jive is fast tempo and a medium tempo something like a quickstep with both fast, medium and slow movements in it.

I have found that describing what is needed to cast different rod actions in terms of overall tempo to be effective, eg, a fast tempo would not be best suited to a slow rod action.

I almost started a thread after the DH fulcrum discussion to cover this type of situation. My use of tempo may not be true as far as many of you guys see it or fit perfectly with regard to describing a fly cast. It has however proven to me over an extended period of time to be a very useful term when teaching Joe Public. Ultimately results are what Im after and if it works its good and stays, if its not it goes and I look for something else.

[Stoatstail50]

Didn't mean to get you involved in any sort of controversy Alan, sorry...

I can completely understand how it is used in the same way that we would use "rhythm" or "beat" teaching wise, they're just words after all....its very clear in 2D casts how this works, not so clear in speys

...what do you think about this though..?

an effort applied during the cast is separate from the tempo of the cast...

[springer]

Didn't mean to get you involved in any sort of controversy Alan, sorry...

I can completely understand how it is used in the same way that we would use "rhythm" or "beat" teaching wise, they're just words after all....its very clear in 2D casts how this works, not so clear in speys

...what do you think about this though..?

an effort applied during the cast is separate from the tempo of the cast...

Ive no problem with you quoting me Mark. Im either right or I will learn something new!

As for the quote, I cant really see how we can separate the two. It takes less effort to move a rod slowly than it does to move it quickly.

[Marc LaMouche]

It takes less effort to move a rod slowly than it does to move it quickly.

why ? or rather, please explain.

[Paul Arden]

Because to move it quicker means a higher rate of acceleration and therefore more force for the given mass.

[Stoatstail50]

As for the quote, I cant really see how we can separate the two. .

Me neither,.... its so obviously not the case that the two are separate, I wonder whether its intended to mean something completely different.

Basically that it is possible to keep an even "speed" or "tempo" through a cast despite the fact that the use of "effort" or "thrusts" may not be regular.

[springer]

As for the quote, I cant really see how we can separate the two. .

Me neither,.... its so obviously not the case that the two are separate, I wonder whether its intended to mean something completely different.

Basically that it is possible to keep an even "speed" or "tempo" through a cast despite the fact that the use of "effort" or "thrusts" may not be regular.

Tempo - noun - the rate or speed of motion or activity; pace.

I see it this way Mark.

Snap-T

1. We do a snap-t and pause for 1 second after the line has landed into anchor position before sweeping into D and firing.

2.We do the same size and speed of snap but now wait 3 seconds before sweeping at the same rate and firing in the exact same way.

All of the effort/thrust aspects were carried out identically as I had chosen but the tempo of the second cast was slower because of the extended pause.

The same type of examples could be described for any of the other spey casts or parts thereof.

[springer]

A different scenario.

We have a pupil who is learning the single spey. His speed of movement and pauses from line hang down to the final execution of the forward cast are all perfect and are all of a suitable tempo. His problem however is he doesnt use enough effort/speed on his forward cast to shoot the 5yds of running line.

Do I tell him that his tempo needs to be increased or just to use more speed/effort in his forward stroke while maintaining the same tempo for the cast?

[Stoatstail50]

OK..yep I take the point..I could understand the idea of "separation" in that sort of context....if lengthening/shortening the time between sweeps and casting strokes is tempo.

If I were to be nit picky I could just as easily say the the tempo is regulated by the absence of force for 1 second v 3 seconds between the two casts...

Anyway, its not that important, I can see the value in using "tempo" in a teaching situation.