ticking - on long carries

Bernd · Post by **Bernd** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:58 pm

Hi Lasse,
"increase speed" avoids the dangle?
The dangle causes the first part of line (in front of the leader) to be pointed downwards (mostly) - seen in the direction of the cast. If we speed it up like hell or slowly does not change the direction.
That's what I see in your excellent slomos, too.
Yet I have not find a way how to avoid the dangle on long carries.
However am still learning and all hints are welcome!
Greets
Bernd

Lasse Karlsson · Post by **Lasse Karlsson** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:32 pm

Hi Bernd

That transverse wave is evident it all lines overhead cast, heck even in some watercasts

Ask more the question, how to minimize and control it

https://vimeo.com/26439914

Remember that one

How many times do I tick here:

https://vimeo.com/5443828

Cheers
Lasse

gordonjudd · Post by **gordonjudd** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:59 pm

Ask more the question, how to minimize and control it

Lasse,
I agree, that is the more important question, so what are you doing in your later videos that you did not do in the cast where Bernd's frame grab in post #1 came from?

If the transverse wave that end up producing the dangle is generated by a dip in the rod tip early in the cast then how are you eliminating that dip?

Or are you just using a higher backcast angle so that the dangle never touches the ground?

Gordy

Lasse Karlsson · Post by **Lasse Karlsson** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:55 pm

Hi Gordy

Could you tell me when the rod tip dips ?

https://vimeo.com/26512805

Cheers
Lasse

Lasse Karlsson · Post by **Lasse Karlsson** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:42 pm

Aitor has explained the cause pretty well in this clip, even though it's a tracking fault here:

https://vimeo.com/26521870

It's the same issue straight overhead.

And I begin to understand the obsession of the ticking when Bernd ticks alot with such a short line

Cheers
Lasse

gordonjudd · Post by **gordonjudd** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:09 pm

Could you tell me when the rod tip dips ?

Lasse,
The formation of the transverse wave that end up as the dangle goes out of frame, so I cannot say with certainty that is generated by the rod dip at the start of the cast shown below, but I would expect that is the source.

Gordy

Gavin Davis · Post by **Gavin Davis** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:03 pm

Hey Gordy,
I have spent a fair amount of time working on reducing "ticks" in my own cast. Occasionally where I practise the grass gets quite high and it became very annoying getting caught all the time.
This is what I found;
I dont exactly know what causes that dangle ( transverse waves are to complicated for me, I dont think its as simple as one thing ), but I deffinately think that the rod tip movement you are talking about contributes greatly to the SIZE of the dangle.
I also think higher line speed contributes to a more violent "kick" and the dangle tends to come out earlier ( usually before or at the caster when the line is lower to the ground, so its more likely to tick ).

Bernd · Post by **Bernd** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:20 pm

Hi Lasse,
I personally could not see the ticking on such a distance when your are casting on water. I would have to stay next to the point where you would tick to see or hear it.
I don't really see it from distance.
On your video without hauling I think I can hear it at least twice.
We should simply share a cuple of casts when meeting next time and see how we can fight the dangle best.
You might also share some casts with Aitor at the EWF!

Hi Gordy,
I understand the biggest part of line on long carries has to be fully stopped before the last part will unroll. That means huge parts are motionless and gravity will pull in a sack. The only way to avoid this is high tension.
Problem is the more stopped line length there is the more momentum is needed to keep the tension up for the whole length. At the same time the live part decreases in length.
On our longest carries we open up the arc anyway. Otherwise we don't get our longest carries.
Even Steve opens up his arc on the final shoot.
I yet don't believe in any caster being able to avoid the dangle to significally increase on longest carries.
My understanding of how the dangle works tells me this can't be possible. Maybe I am wrong here

However then I would want to see in on the field. :p
I have been with quiet some fantastic casters and they all had the dangle. Lasse is one of them.

Hi Gavin,
if you look to the end of line (in red) on the picture and think what happens if the caster speeds up the line forward... that last part of line gets downward momentum.
That's how the dangle starts to grow.
Best
Bernd

Paul Arden · Post by **Paul Arden** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:34 pm

I think the line can be perfectly straight Bernd, the transverse wave comes from the rod tip rising above the SLP. Below the SLP you also create a transverse wave. Perfectly or nearly straight and you create a collision. Hmmm!!

Cheers! Paul

Gavin Davis · Post by **Gavin Davis** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:07 pm

Good explanation Bernd,
I totally agree. Sorry I didn't realise you were referring to the dangle and esses as to separate things. I realise my mistake, i should have said I didn't know what cause esses, but the dangle i think is deffinately from that tip path. The dangle occurs when the wave from that tip path hits the esses ( or end of the line ).
I think there are caster that can reduce dangling, when this occurs the esses usually proper gate a lot later ( In front of the caster ).
Im sure I have some footage of this, I will see if I can dig it up.

Bernd · Post by **Bernd** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:33 pm

Paul Arden wrote:I think the line can be perfectly straight Bernd

In Fly casting straight has it's own definition.

You HAVE an amazing high line speed.
And yes, mostly your line is pretty straight compared to other casters.

Hi Gavin,
I agree reducing the dangle is possible upto some degree.
However it will increase with the length of carry as far as I understand it and as far as I have seen it.
Cheers
B

Bernd · Post by **Bernd** » Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:12 am

https://vimeo.com/39511275

gordonjudd · Post by **gordonjudd** » Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:24 am

I understand the biggest part of line on long carries has to be fully stopped before the last part will unroll.

Bernd,
I don't see why that would necessarily be the case. Your example of using pull back puts the rod leg in motion, but the fly leg still continues to unroll. It may even snap off due to the higher fly velocity that motion imparts.

That early motion in the rod leg is also the idea behind kinetic capture.

That means huge parts are motionless and gravity will pull in a sag.

Take a look at some earlier frames and see if that downward direction of the line from the rod tip was not due to the downward momentum of the rod leg related to counterflex.

That was certainly the case in Mathias back cast as shown below.

You can see that the rod leg after the loop has propagated a small distance (the red overlay) the line is below the level of the tip at RSP2 and the bottom of that leg is below the minimum height of the tip at MCF.

That is happening so fast I do not think the downward acceleration of the line from gravity would have produced that much downward motion of the line. Rather it resulted from the downward momentum of the line near the tip that was caused by the downward pull from the tip as it was going from RSP1 to MCF.

Gordy

John Waters · Post by **John Waters** » Sat Mar 31, 2012 9:47 am

I try and get my dangle to come through at hip height and the rod action assists. Can't see much here but the line is slightly visible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SInUkHAdQ2o

Gavin Davis · Post by **Gavin Davis** » Sat Mar 31, 2012 9:47 am

Some footage, note the size of the dangle, and the position where it occurs. I think I have managed to reduce the size of the dangle with a straighter tip path, and delay its propagation until it passes me ( when the line is higher of the ground ).
The dangle does grow in size proportional to the length of line.
http://vimeo.com/39522636
( 5wt TCR and MED )

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