They had a pre-existing agenda: and the formation of the ACICI website gave them (they thought) an opportunity to carry out that agenda.
Maybe not for the bulk of FFF members, and maybe not even for the bulk of CICP members, the clumsy initial action by Phil Greenlee and co; compounded by the backdown, without apology, and with impossible conditions attached; displays incompetent leadership from those at the top of FFF.
PG and DD appear to love their corporate speak: if they were leaders of a corporation with publicly traded shares; the arse would have dropped out of the share price and they would have been forced to resign by the markets.
The fact that DD felt compelled (or was compelled by PG) to send an email to the CICP membership last week indicates that this is not working out quite as they had schemed.
PLEASE NOTE: This is the Archived Sexyloops Board from years 2004-2013.
Our active community is here: https://www.sexyloops.co.uk/theboard/
Our active community is here: https://www.sexyloops.co.uk/theboard/
ACICI - new instructor website
All opinions below are those of the author and do not reflect the opinion of others or any organizations the author may belong to.
I have not monitored this site for about a year now for reasons I will cover later. This is the only thread I have read since then and it was initially accidental. I am responding here, now, just to set the record straight and show how foolish some of the fanboy comments can be. Once this is done I will not be revisiting the site or the topic or the site, unlike others who keep saying so and not doing so.
Denise and Dan were members of the CI Test committee as was I and others. When they announced they were no longer allowed to participate they mentioned it was because of their ACICI website. I didn't know what that was at the time and googled it. I came up with nothing in the first two pages at the time. I asked within the committee what it was and the inquiry was referred to Dave Diaz. He responded with what, to me, seemed to be half the story. Further it appeared there had been some kind of over-reaction to a web site. A day or two later I searched ACICI and added casting to the search. I found a portal page that told me the site was closed. Just below it was a link to the first pages of this thread. Even though I had sworn off sexyloops (hereinafter to be referred to as barstool) for more important things in life, I read the thread which at that time was concerned with ACICI's affect on barstool and pauley's opinions about how he thinks the business should be run, even though he wasn't around when any of this was originally structured, and why, and had never taken enough interest get involved with the organization so he could directly influence what was happening (discounting the last 4 or 5 months he was on a committee, and complaining about it all the time).
I responded to Dave Diaz few days later including a request he explain further the facts because it just didn't make sense that they would be dismissed because of a website. I mentioned in that email that I owned FFFCCI Yahoo Group and castflys.com and had FFF material on it. I also mentioned a number of other websites that contained FFF material, which at the time seemed to be Diaz' main focus. While writing that letter I went back to the thread on barstool and saw the notice that got the fan boys panties in a bunch and started a firestorm of speculation, assumptions and innuendo. I also requested Dave Diaz to respond to my query on the facts, he has never given me the courtesy of a reply.
After some time the committee attempted to restart its task on the CI exam. Since I had not heard from Diaz, nor had seen any written statements by the CBOG, outside of what was posted on ACICI, I didn't feel right contributing to anything that might further Diaz' position as a Chairman of the CBOG. I informed the committee chair that I was to be considered uncooperative. The feeling was not just mine and the others stated they could also not contribute until they were able to make an informed decision on the matter. This was before any of the barstool fanboys decided to do anything but punch harder on their computer keys and spill their strawberry flavored milk. This should settle any question as to my stance on the events in question and expose the fanboy assumptions as being inane.
I did something beside yell in this empty room. I am still an FFF member but since my membership isn't up for 5 months I still have time to decide. Unlike some I didn't, supposedly, quit my membership and state I had nothing more to say on the subject, only to be one of the most frantic fanboys out there.
BTW, this brings up a question; What happened to the 2 Europeans who committed to sit on the CI Test Committee? They showed up for a few months then both dropped off without so much as a 'see ya'. I don't think the Europeans have a place to complain since it seems that a lot of them don't have the time to do any work. Imagine what would happen if they were elected CBOG members representing a constituency. Yeah, YOU think things go slow now, just imagine the people from all over the world being asked to show up at the conclave every year and stick to an agenda that is set ahead of time because they only have 8 hours a year to work face to face. Pauley would still find something to complain about since the world doesn't fit HIS ideal of how things should be.
On the topic of pauley… It has been apparent to me for over 3 years that pauley was going to do what HE could to cause a problem with the FFF. This goes back to the FFF definitions vs, the barstool definitions. Pauley decided if the FFF didn't accept his definitions "there would be trouble". Well shit pauley, that’s a threat isn't it? And YOU made it numerous times. Apparently because YOU have this soapbox website YOU feel YOU can dictate YOUR will on the world. Well "Seig Heil pauley". Then YOU started in on what the FFF should and shouldn't do, because YOU felt YOUR way was better. YOU made a point of complaining about some issues that the CBOG was already addressing, but YOU were too fucking lazy to look at the communications pages. Damn, YOU might have seen that YOU didn't know that much about the program and might even have gotten interested enough in it to educate YOURself. But no, that’s not how YOU roll.
And then to top it off for me was when YOU stated openly that YOU did not follow the written rules for examiners, by choice, because YOUR way was better. How many people flunked the test because of YOUR personal policies? Imagine if we all decided to make up our own rules. How fair would that be? And YOU are one of the loudest complainers about the unfairness of the program.
One other thing, why doesn't it fit in YOUR little brain and those of the fanboys that corporations generally don't organize to run as democracies. I can't think of even one, but they may be out there. So just why the fuck should the FFF bend to YOUR whim just because YOU think it is a better ideal.
FYI, I have pushed for geographic representation long before YOUR pea brain thought it up. Over time I realized it wouldn't work very well. Let's say YOU were elected to represent YOUR area. YOU would need to contribute a lot more time on committees, because YOU would be expected to be on more than one as a CBOG. YOU would also be expected to attend the conclaves. I don't think YOU could argue that YOU wouldn't run because all the fanboys would insist on it, being the outspoken leader YOU are, and don't forget it was YOUR idea. On top of that they would want YOU to commit to a six year term, and all on YOUR own bank account. My guess is YOU wouldn't last. Now try to get someone to take YOUR place in the geographic area. That would require an election. After hearing YOU bitch about it I doubt YOU would find someone to relieve YOU. The "Volunteers" who are the current CBOG are willing to do these things, at their own expense. I'm not, but I will serve on a committee to accomplish changes where I see them needed.
Also, contrary to what YOU claim, YOUR comments as well as others were anti-American, regardless of what YOU claim. The thread went from demonizing Diaz and Greenlee, to the whole FFF, to the whole country in nothing flat. At least I don't live in a country where YOU still have regents that YOU have to bow and curtsy to. Also I don't live in a country were those regents changed their last names so the local peons wouldn't realize the royalty wasn't in fact English but German.
BTW, for those interested and those who assume to know me enough to know my politics, I knew I was for the presidential candidate from Kenya two days before he announced his intentions the first time.
Fanboy #1; "Bajarse de su caballo andaluz alta". You think you're hot shit because you video things that go aginst things written in the past. Well if you were so good why didn't you know that the hook in an overpowered cast was caused by excess enery travelling back up the line until you saw it in your video. I commented to that affect probably 5 years ago, I believe I called it a reflex wave, but you just figured it out. Also why didn't you and all the others understand that Frank could make a 100 foot cast using the same arc he used for a 40 foot cast a few years back. I noticed it was awful silent on that point after he put up the video. A whole bunch of you people judge the rest of the world by your own opinion of yourselves. That isn't a very intelligent approach and shows bias to an extreme.
So my comment stands. Fuck arden and his fanboys. This place is a joke. Fanboys, drop your certs, the CICP will be better without your egos.
Guy Manning
I have not monitored this site for about a year now for reasons I will cover later. This is the only thread I have read since then and it was initially accidental. I am responding here, now, just to set the record straight and show how foolish some of the fanboy comments can be. Once this is done I will not be revisiting the site or the topic or the site, unlike others who keep saying so and not doing so.
Denise and Dan were members of the CI Test committee as was I and others. When they announced they were no longer allowed to participate they mentioned it was because of their ACICI website. I didn't know what that was at the time and googled it. I came up with nothing in the first two pages at the time. I asked within the committee what it was and the inquiry was referred to Dave Diaz. He responded with what, to me, seemed to be half the story. Further it appeared there had been some kind of over-reaction to a web site. A day or two later I searched ACICI and added casting to the search. I found a portal page that told me the site was closed. Just below it was a link to the first pages of this thread. Even though I had sworn off sexyloops (hereinafter to be referred to as barstool) for more important things in life, I read the thread which at that time was concerned with ACICI's affect on barstool and pauley's opinions about how he thinks the business should be run, even though he wasn't around when any of this was originally structured, and why, and had never taken enough interest get involved with the organization so he could directly influence what was happening (discounting the last 4 or 5 months he was on a committee, and complaining about it all the time).
I responded to Dave Diaz few days later including a request he explain further the facts because it just didn't make sense that they would be dismissed because of a website. I mentioned in that email that I owned FFFCCI Yahoo Group and castflys.com and had FFF material on it. I also mentioned a number of other websites that contained FFF material, which at the time seemed to be Diaz' main focus. While writing that letter I went back to the thread on barstool and saw the notice that got the fan boys panties in a bunch and started a firestorm of speculation, assumptions and innuendo. I also requested Dave Diaz to respond to my query on the facts, he has never given me the courtesy of a reply.
After some time the committee attempted to restart its task on the CI exam. Since I had not heard from Diaz, nor had seen any written statements by the CBOG, outside of what was posted on ACICI, I didn't feel right contributing to anything that might further Diaz' position as a Chairman of the CBOG. I informed the committee chair that I was to be considered uncooperative. The feeling was not just mine and the others stated they could also not contribute until they were able to make an informed decision on the matter. This was before any of the barstool fanboys decided to do anything but punch harder on their computer keys and spill their strawberry flavored milk. This should settle any question as to my stance on the events in question and expose the fanboy assumptions as being inane.
I did something beside yell in this empty room. I am still an FFF member but since my membership isn't up for 5 months I still have time to decide. Unlike some I didn't, supposedly, quit my membership and state I had nothing more to say on the subject, only to be one of the most frantic fanboys out there.
BTW, this brings up a question; What happened to the 2 Europeans who committed to sit on the CI Test Committee? They showed up for a few months then both dropped off without so much as a 'see ya'. I don't think the Europeans have a place to complain since it seems that a lot of them don't have the time to do any work. Imagine what would happen if they were elected CBOG members representing a constituency. Yeah, YOU think things go slow now, just imagine the people from all over the world being asked to show up at the conclave every year and stick to an agenda that is set ahead of time because they only have 8 hours a year to work face to face. Pauley would still find something to complain about since the world doesn't fit HIS ideal of how things should be.
On the topic of pauley… It has been apparent to me for over 3 years that pauley was going to do what HE could to cause a problem with the FFF. This goes back to the FFF definitions vs, the barstool definitions. Pauley decided if the FFF didn't accept his definitions "there would be trouble". Well shit pauley, that’s a threat isn't it? And YOU made it numerous times. Apparently because YOU have this soapbox website YOU feel YOU can dictate YOUR will on the world. Well "Seig Heil pauley". Then YOU started in on what the FFF should and shouldn't do, because YOU felt YOUR way was better. YOU made a point of complaining about some issues that the CBOG was already addressing, but YOU were too fucking lazy to look at the communications pages. Damn, YOU might have seen that YOU didn't know that much about the program and might even have gotten interested enough in it to educate YOURself. But no, that’s not how YOU roll.
And then to top it off for me was when YOU stated openly that YOU did not follow the written rules for examiners, by choice, because YOUR way was better. How many people flunked the test because of YOUR personal policies? Imagine if we all decided to make up our own rules. How fair would that be? And YOU are one of the loudest complainers about the unfairness of the program.
One other thing, why doesn't it fit in YOUR little brain and those of the fanboys that corporations generally don't organize to run as democracies. I can't think of even one, but they may be out there. So just why the fuck should the FFF bend to YOUR whim just because YOU think it is a better ideal.
FYI, I have pushed for geographic representation long before YOUR pea brain thought it up. Over time I realized it wouldn't work very well. Let's say YOU were elected to represent YOUR area. YOU would need to contribute a lot more time on committees, because YOU would be expected to be on more than one as a CBOG. YOU would also be expected to attend the conclaves. I don't think YOU could argue that YOU wouldn't run because all the fanboys would insist on it, being the outspoken leader YOU are, and don't forget it was YOUR idea. On top of that they would want YOU to commit to a six year term, and all on YOUR own bank account. My guess is YOU wouldn't last. Now try to get someone to take YOUR place in the geographic area. That would require an election. After hearing YOU bitch about it I doubt YOU would find someone to relieve YOU. The "Volunteers" who are the current CBOG are willing to do these things, at their own expense. I'm not, but I will serve on a committee to accomplish changes where I see them needed.
Also, contrary to what YOU claim, YOUR comments as well as others were anti-American, regardless of what YOU claim. The thread went from demonizing Diaz and Greenlee, to the whole FFF, to the whole country in nothing flat. At least I don't live in a country where YOU still have regents that YOU have to bow and curtsy to. Also I don't live in a country were those regents changed their last names so the local peons wouldn't realize the royalty wasn't in fact English but German.
BTW, for those interested and those who assume to know me enough to know my politics, I knew I was for the presidential candidate from Kenya two days before he announced his intentions the first time.
Fanboy #1; "Bajarse de su caballo andaluz alta". You think you're hot shit because you video things that go aginst things written in the past. Well if you were so good why didn't you know that the hook in an overpowered cast was caused by excess enery travelling back up the line until you saw it in your video. I commented to that affect probably 5 years ago, I believe I called it a reflex wave, but you just figured it out. Also why didn't you and all the others understand that Frank could make a 100 foot cast using the same arc he used for a 40 foot cast a few years back. I noticed it was awful silent on that point after he put up the video. A whole bunch of you people judge the rest of the world by your own opinion of yourselves. That isn't a very intelligent approach and shows bias to an extreme.
So my comment stands. Fuck arden and his fanboys. This place is a joke. Fanboys, drop your certs, the CICP will be better without your egos.
Guy Manning
tp://CastFlys.Com]CastFlys.Com[/URL]
-
Aitor
- IB3 Member Level 1
- Posts: 2074
- Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:19 pm
- Location: Bilbao, Basque Country
- Contact:
grhen wrote:Fanboy #1; "Bajarse de su caballo andaluz alta".
Does that phrase try to be Spanish? It is even worse than my English!
This is Spanish:
Eres tonto de noche
Tonto de día
Tonto por la mañana
Y al mediodía
Y al mediodía
Y al mediodía
Eres tonto de noche
Tonto de día
You should sing it as a Navarrese jota
You think you're hot shit because you video things that go aginst things written in the past.
Really? You didn't use to say those same words on your private messages and emails asking for additional explanations about some of those videos, did you?
Also why didn't you and all the others understand that Frank could make a 100 foot cast using the same arc he used for a 40 foot cast a few years back.
Really? Frank uses the same arc for a 12m cast and for a 30m one? So one of the five essentials is wrong?
So my comment stands. Fuck arden and his fanboys.
You, FFF fanboy, should update the links related to FFF on your website. Then you could check what the Casting Instructor Code of Conduct states:
Verbal conduct
Members will refrain from talking in a negative way about other members or casting notables.
Members will refrain from the use of racist, sexist, vulgar or obscene language.
That is only allowed to SL fanboys who resign from the sacrosanct FFF, but not to fanboys of FFF itself.
P.S. From now on I will stick to the second statement of my signature.
Aitor is not like us, he is Spanish, and therefore completely mad.
Cheers, Paul
No discutas nunca con un idiota, la gente podría no notar la diferencia.
Immanuel Kant
Videos for casting geeks
Cheers, Paul
No discutas nunca con un idiota, la gente podría no notar la diferencia.
Immanuel Kant
Videos for casting geeks
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Paul Arden
- Fly God 2010
- Posts: 23925
- Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:35 am
- Location: Travelling
- Contact:
Thanks Guy for you opinion.
Something I find very interesting, is the criticism I get from you and various members of CBOG that I or anyone else has opinions. Maybe we don't share the same opinions all the time, but I really don't understand your problem that others have opinions too. That's what discussion is about; exploring different opinions!
And then because I have different opinions, it's all YOU, YOU, YOU! Amazing
Anyway, the issue is not Pauley
the issue is the removal of Dan and Denise from FFF Membership by Philip Greenlee and the decision not to hear an Ethics Committee complaint on the matter. And here it appears we share the same opinion!
Hope your day gets better!
Cheers, Paul
Something I find very interesting, is the criticism I get from you and various members of CBOG that I or anyone else has opinions. Maybe we don't share the same opinions all the time, but I really don't understand your problem that others have opinions too. That's what discussion is about; exploring different opinions!
And then because I have different opinions, it's all YOU, YOU, YOU! Amazing
Anyway, the issue is not Pauley
the issue is the removal of Dan and Denise from FFF Membership by Philip Greenlee and the decision not to hear an Ethics Committee complaint on the matter. And here it appears we share the same opinion!Hope your day gets better!
Cheers, Paul
-
Paul Arden
- Fly God 2010
- Posts: 23925
- Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:35 am
- Location: Travelling
- Contact:
I'll just quickly add something else because I'm out the door now on a fishing trip. I gave the FFF a huge amount of my time, I've organised numerous certification events, examined all over the world, Canada, US, NZ, Germany, Hungary, Serbia, Australia, Malaysia, Ukraine and in the UK (although I never promoted it there). It's cost me a fair chunk of my earnings too; I don't have a fantastic income but I've been happy to do it, because in this part of the world I am comparatively well off. I've also been on Masters and International committees. And yes I have opinions! Otherwise why bother?
What I was looking for with the FFFCICP, is a world-wide professional and democratic instructors' association, with paid examiners, fair prices that take into account different economies and the highest standards. Now it's precisely because the FFF doesn't want to be any of this that I left. I'm not trying to get them to bend to my will! Yes I tried to convince people that this was a great idea, which it is But they have a different dream. Nothing wrong with that! I have no problems with any instructors in any association, after all we are all peers and I have made great friends in every association. But my time is wasted in the FFF simply because it sees itself as a completely different entity and I'm constantly locking horns.
And that is absolutely fine by me. In fact since I've made that decision I've been much happier individual
Have a great weekend!
Cheers, Paul
What I was looking for with the FFFCICP, is a world-wide professional and democratic instructors' association, with paid examiners, fair prices that take into account different economies and the highest standards. Now it's precisely because the FFF doesn't want to be any of this that I left. I'm not trying to get them to bend to my will! Yes I tried to convince people that this was a great idea, which it is
But they have a different dream. Nothing wrong with that! I have no problems with any instructors in any association, after all we are all peers and I have made great friends in every association. But my time is wasted in the FFF simply because it sees itself as a completely different entity and I'm constantly locking horns.And that is absolutely fine by me. In fact since I've made that decision I've been much happier individual
Have a great weekend!
Cheers, Paul
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Hal Jordan
- IB3 Member Level 1
- Posts: 604
- Joined: Thu May 05, 2011 1:17 am
- Contact:
No it isn't.Paul Arden wrote:That's what discussion is about; exploring different opinions!
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victor
- IB3 Member Level 1
- Posts: 3098
- Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 5:07 pm
- Location: Ashford, Kent, England
- Contact:
I responded to Dave Diaz few days later including a request he explain further the facts because it just didn't make sense that they would be dismissed because of a website. I mentioned in that email that I owned FFFCCI Yahoo Group and castflys.com and had FFF material on it. I also mentioned a number of other websites that contained FFF material, which at the time seemed to be Diaz' main focus. While writing that letter I went back to the thread on barstool and saw the notice that got the fan boys panties in a bunch and started a firestorm of speculation, assumptions and innuendo. I also requested Dave Diaz to respond to my query on the facts, he has never given me the courtesy of a reply.
So you saw what we saw, and got the same responce. Nothing.
After some time the committee attempted to restart its task on the CI exam. Since I had not heard from Diaz, nor had seen any written statements by the CBOG, outside of what was posted on ACICI, I didn't feel right contributing to anything that might further Diaz' position as a Chairman of the CBOG. I informed the committee chair that I was to be considered uncooperative. The feeling was not just mine and the others stated they could also not contribute until they were able to make an informed decision on the matter. This was before any of the barstool fanboys decided to do anything but punch harder on their computer keys and spill their strawberry flavored milk. This should settle any question as to my stance on the events in question and expose the fanboy assumptions as being inane.
Inane? You reached the same conclusion we did that something stinks.
I did something beside yell in this empty room.
The room may as well be empty 'cos no-one is listening, or at least not admitting they are. Not good PR is it.
I am still an FFF member but since my membership isn't up for 5 months I still have time to decide.
So am I and I don't have any plans to quit.
corporations generally don't organize to run as democracies. I can't think of even one, but they may be out there
Fair point, but they all have a HR Dept where employees can go to air greivances, make suggestions or ask for advice. I have asked a couple of times who performs that task within the IFFF for it's members. Like you I haven't had the courtesy of a reply.
Like you we are listening to the sound of silence.
Apart from the letter we all recieved from David Diaz telling us the matter was closed.
Guy, there is no general anti Americanism in this apart from some irony and a bit of sarcasm, which is all grist to the mill here. Where else could you have been so rude and not had the post deleted?
Mike
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Bernd
- IB3 Member Level 1
- Posts: 2204
- Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 10:55 pm
- Location: Hamburg, Germany
- Contact:
grhen wrote:Fuck arden and his fanboys. This place is a joke.
Guy Manning
Hi Guy,
nice to read you.
Since this place is a joke many IFFF instructors seem to be quite jokey GUYs then.
Greets
Bernd
Bernd Ziesche
www.first-cast.de
www.first-cast.de
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Paul Arden
- Fly God 2010
- Posts: 23925
- Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:35 am
- Location: Travelling
- Contact:
I dont understand Guy. He seems to have lost it. No idea why he hasn't asked his posts deleted; I know I would!!! Fuck maybe we all end up like that. I hope not!!! Shoot me before I lose it, or Zonker me preferably
Sorry to lose you as a friend Guy (if we have; I don't know yet, I haven't stuck you out with the 10-weight), but Christ man, sort your shit out! :p We're all equal around here. I don't know why you post shit on my forum; that's pretty fucking uncool.
Maybe you're a wanker, I dunno, never met. Which is a pity. If you can fish then let's talk about it. Otherwise I need a hole in my head to need a friend like you. Your call, not mine! And yes, you owe a huge apology to my friends here.
Cheers, Paul
Sorry to lose you as a friend Guy (if we have; I don't know yet, I haven't stuck you out with the 10-weight), but Christ man, sort your shit out! :p We're all equal around here. I don't know why you post shit on my forum; that's pretty fucking uncool.
Maybe you're a wanker, I dunno, never met. Which is a pity. If you can fish then let's talk about it. Otherwise I need a hole in my head to need a friend like you. Your call, not mine! And yes, you owe a huge apology to my friends here.
Cheers, Paul
-
Aitor
- IB3 Member Level 1
- Posts: 2074
- Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:19 pm
- Location: Bilbao, Basque Country
- Contact:
I've got it.Wet wrote:Anyone else get D&D's email today?
Aitor is not like us, he is Spanish, and therefore completely mad.
Cheers, Paul
No discutas nunca con un idiota, la gente podría no notar la diferencia.
Immanuel Kant
Videos for casting geeks
Cheers, Paul
No discutas nunca con un idiota, la gente podría no notar la diferencia.
Immanuel Kant
Videos for casting geeks
-
Marc LaMouche
- BBBB No 2,5 Le NP
- Posts: 6758
- Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 2:33 pm
- Location: Pyrénées, France
- Contact:
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Stoatstail50
- IB3 Member Level 1
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- Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:59 am
- Location: Long lost in London
- Contact:
I have it too, it is a spiced up rewrite of a letter which was to be sent to the CBoG. Not me who added the spice by the way, not sure I approve either, Denise and Dan sent it out.
So far there is confirmed support from 13 different countries for a less aggressively worded letter. There are reasonable arguments from one major territory that it should be significantly less demanding, these arguments are to be respected and no-one is forced to sign up to something they do not agree with.
One of the criticisms of this particular episode is that it appears to have been co-ordinated here on SL and that there are very few people who feel strongly enough about it to complain. The purpose of the letter is to indicate that not only is there widespread international support for the appropriate application of CICP procedures but that this support extends beyond the regular posters here on Sexyloops.
There are those amongst the wider community that have had a hissy at the idea that the CboG should be challenged in this way, which is fair enough. But, almost all agree that the protocols, which up to now have been assumed to apply to us all and which are there, not only to protect the organisation, but to protect members from frivolous allegations and abuses of power or position, have not been followed.
It remains the case that the CBoG and the BoD could shut down this debate overnight by removing the arbitary restrictions that they have placed on the membership and certifications of Dan and Denise and agree that they will follow the publicly accepted protocols for future violations of either the CICP Code of Practice or the new extended BoD SoP.
If there is a breach of these policies either by Dan and or Denise, or anyone else in fact, then the ethics committee system, which is generally acknowledged to have been applied fairly, up to now, is quite sufficient to be used to apply an appropriate sanction.
No-one expects them to be put back on the CBoG and no-one wants this damaging affair to continue...
Attached is the alternative letter which has been circulating.
So far there is confirmed support from 13 different countries for a less aggressively worded letter. There are reasonable arguments from one major territory that it should be significantly less demanding, these arguments are to be respected and no-one is forced to sign up to something they do not agree with.
One of the criticisms of this particular episode is that it appears to have been co-ordinated here on SL and that there are very few people who feel strongly enough about it to complain. The purpose of the letter is to indicate that not only is there widespread international support for the appropriate application of CICP procedures but that this support extends beyond the regular posters here on Sexyloops.
There are those amongst the wider community that have had a hissy at the idea that the CboG should be challenged in this way, which is fair enough. But, almost all agree that the protocols, which up to now have been assumed to apply to us all and which are there, not only to protect the organisation, but to protect members from frivolous allegations and abuses of power or position, have not been followed.
It remains the case that the CBoG and the BoD could shut down this debate overnight by removing the arbitary restrictions that they have placed on the membership and certifications of Dan and Denise and agree that they will follow the publicly accepted protocols for future violations of either the CICP Code of Practice or the new extended BoD SoP.
If there is a breach of these policies either by Dan and or Denise, or anyone else in fact, then the ethics committee system, which is generally acknowledged to have been applied fairly, up to now, is quite sufficient to be used to apply an appropriate sanction.
No-one expects them to be put back on the CBoG and no-one wants this damaging affair to continue...
Attached is the alternative letter which has been circulating.
- Attachments
-
- Diaz__Letter_08._docx.pdf
- (57.11 KiB) Downloaded 176 times
Casting Definitions
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after.
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after.
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Aitor
- IB3 Member Level 1
- Posts: 2074
- Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:19 pm
- Location: Bilbao, Basque Country
- Contact:
Humm, it seems that even those affected by CBoG wrong doing like to use the same ways of obscurantism. Same dogs, different collars? :glare:Stoatstail50 wrote:I have it too, it is a spiced up rewrite of a letter which was to be sent to the CBoG. Not me who added the spice by the way, not sure I approve either, Denise and Dan sent it out.
One of the criticisms of this particular episode is that it appears to have been co-ordinated here on SL...
Yes, it could have been coordinated on the FFF website in the forum open only to certified instructors.
We just need a link since I can not find it anywhere.
Aitor is not like us, he is Spanish, and therefore completely mad.
Cheers, Paul
No discutas nunca con un idiota, la gente podría no notar la diferencia.
Immanuel Kant
Videos for casting geeks
Cheers, Paul
No discutas nunca con un idiota, la gente podría no notar la diferencia.
Immanuel Kant
Videos for casting geeks
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