It's not for me Craig, but it is for some. Don't knock it; it gives focus to their practise and an opportunity for us to teach them. Our problem is that the instructor certification has become their casting badge. That's an easy fix. The Spanish have already done this.
Cheers, Paul
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CCI Test - Discuss
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Paul Arden
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Big Eyebrow
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Big Eyebrow
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Paul Arden
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Bernd
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Paul Arden wrote:The argument against this, is that it takes too long. In which case I say charge more, take longer and do it properly.
Cheers, Paul
Hi Paul,
that is exactly why I wrote as an examiner I would want to be able to choose which task to test on A), B), C) or all of them. As an examiner I still will be responsable to get the whole exam done in the right amount of time. I don't see any problem here. It's just time management that we need (and already have anyway I think).
The candidate will be prepared to A), B) and C) on all tasks and we pick some of them to test.
No big issue in my book.
Greets
Bernd
Bernd Ziesche
www.first-cast.de
www.first-cast.de
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Paul Arden
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Paul Arden wrote:Personally I think the whole exam should be explain, teach and demonstrate.
When I took the exam 7 or so years ago that was exactly what I expected and it seems we did.
Has the exam become far simpler as of late? Please tell me it hasn't dissolved into a simple casting skills test.
As for being an instructor, you quickly learn that you will be instructing all sorts of skill levels. I for one would be embarrassed as Hell if I couldn't teach fishing casts of all sorts for all kinds of waters and species anywhere from small mountain pocket waters to fishing on the flats. Anyone who takes and passes the exam that doesn't have the fire in the belly for casting should be excluded from passing. How? That is one tough question. Maybe just a few simple questions outside of what they will expect that pertains to the casts required to pass the functionality test. That could very well weed out the posers who simply studied for the test from those who actually want to share their love and knowledge.
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Paul Arden
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jomeder
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Hi,
I realise that it's been a while since the last post on this thread. I wanted to post on it back then but I ran out of time and I've only just got a chance to finish up what I wanted to say. Of course that other FFF stuff has blown up in the mean time, but I still think this is relevant.
I think the casting parts of the CCI test are easy. That's not to say I didn't have to work hard to get better at some aspects of the test, but it was completely achievable with practice. Accuracy was not something I'd spent a lot of time on. For sure in fishing situations I could get the fly where I wanted it most of the time but I hadn't spent a lot of time casting at targets I wanted to hit every time. I practiced it a lot and I got better. It wasn't hard as such, it was just a matter of putting in the time.
Anyone who saw me prior to the test would say I seemed anxious ;-). That's definitely true. However what I was anxious about was primarily the written test because I didn't know what to expect, and after that I was anxious about meeting the expectations for the explanations part of the test and performing under pressure. I was pretty confident with my casting though.
The hard part of the CCI test is knowing what to expect. Part of this is knowing what is expected from each task. This is shown by people needing to ask. I had a couple of problems like this. When I did my test the accuracy task was even less clear. I ended up practicing it every way I could (forwards, backwards, targets not in order) because I couldn't get a clear answer to how it would be done. It seems to be clarified now but still causes some confusion.
It would be a good if there was a clearly defined set of material from the FFF which explained every item in the test, as online video or as a DVD. I don't think there is harm in this (e.g. some level of "cheating") but it would make it easier to ensure people had the knowledge required for the exam which can only be good. There would probably need to be some way to avoid parroting of the explain and demonstrates and establish there was deeper understanding of the concepts involved. When it all comes down to it you still need to turn up on the day and make the casts.
Part of the difficulty was also getting into the FFF "frame of mind". That's kind of aligning terminology and adjusting to the culture, if you see what I mean.
It's natural to be anxious about taking the exam, except perhaps if you have already done a lot of teaching and are very comfortable with that.
From my point of view I would like there to be a greater amount of teaching in the exam. I don't really like the "casting badge" aspect of it, because I think it devalues the qualification. I think the casting focused parts of the exam are necessary to weed out those whose casting is not a reasonable level, but perhaps those could be incorporated more into a teaching focused exam.
I think it would be great to have a "casting badge" qualification separate to an instructors qualification. A casting badge would allow people to work toward a defined goal as they might with the CCI now, but without having to worry about the teaching side. That would probably make it more enjoyable for many. A casting badge could have graduated steps aimed at different things. For example after a general first level badge similar to the CCI casts you could branch to badges for presentation casts, single handed spey, accuracy and such forth. Something like this would allow for directed study, help to motivate people to improve their casting, foster awareness of a broader range of casting, provide a ready made syllabus for clubs to adopt and also give instructors the opportunity to teach people to achieve the different badges.
A badge system could also be used to lead into the instructors qualification. You would need to have attained certain badges to sit the CCI which would free that exam up to focus on teaching. Basic casting proficiency would have been established by the badges.
Clearly a lot of people are interested in the CCI as badge. I think it is a great way to improve your casting, but if you're not interested in instruction I think you're maybe doing it for the wrong reasons. Well, maybe that's a bit harsh, but it is nominally a casting instructor's qualification. I'm interested in it as a way of showing I've reached a certain standard in instruction and to give people assurance I'm not some random guy off the street. That could have been through another qualification but the FFF CCI seemed to be the best one for me being here in NZ.
I personally don't need a badge to say I'm good at casting. I don't care that much if anyone else thinks I'm a good or bad caster, unless they're a dick about it ;-). I enjoy casting for casting's sake and it gives me personal satisfaction to get better at casting, not to mention it makes fishing a lot more fun! I would be far more disappointed if someone thought I was a bad instructor than if they thought I was a bad caster.
Of course I say all this after really putting casting aside for the last year or two because of other stuff in my life. One of my biggest regrets is that I've had to let my instruction slide soon after getting my qualification and not getting established as I'd hoped to. However once I've been able to sort out the other stuff I'm really looking forward to getting back up to speed with instruction again. The casting skill is ticking over and I know it will just take some work to get back to a good instruction level. The idea of that actually kind of thrills me :-).
Regards,
Jo
I realise that it's been a while since the last post on this thread. I wanted to post on it back then but I ran out of time and I've only just got a chance to finish up what I wanted to say. Of course that other FFF stuff has blown up in the mean time, but I still think this is relevant.
I think the casting parts of the CCI test are easy. That's not to say I didn't have to work hard to get better at some aspects of the test, but it was completely achievable with practice. Accuracy was not something I'd spent a lot of time on. For sure in fishing situations I could get the fly where I wanted it most of the time but I hadn't spent a lot of time casting at targets I wanted to hit every time. I practiced it a lot and I got better. It wasn't hard as such, it was just a matter of putting in the time.
Anyone who saw me prior to the test would say I seemed anxious ;-). That's definitely true. However what I was anxious about was primarily the written test because I didn't know what to expect, and after that I was anxious about meeting the expectations for the explanations part of the test and performing under pressure. I was pretty confident with my casting though.
The hard part of the CCI test is knowing what to expect. Part of this is knowing what is expected from each task. This is shown by people needing to ask. I had a couple of problems like this. When I did my test the accuracy task was even less clear. I ended up practicing it every way I could (forwards, backwards, targets not in order) because I couldn't get a clear answer to how it would be done. It seems to be clarified now but still causes some confusion.
It would be a good if there was a clearly defined set of material from the FFF which explained every item in the test, as online video or as a DVD. I don't think there is harm in this (e.g. some level of "cheating") but it would make it easier to ensure people had the knowledge required for the exam which can only be good. There would probably need to be some way to avoid parroting of the explain and demonstrates and establish there was deeper understanding of the concepts involved. When it all comes down to it you still need to turn up on the day and make the casts.
Part of the difficulty was also getting into the FFF "frame of mind". That's kind of aligning terminology and adjusting to the culture, if you see what I mean.
It's natural to be anxious about taking the exam, except perhaps if you have already done a lot of teaching and are very comfortable with that.
From my point of view I would like there to be a greater amount of teaching in the exam. I don't really like the "casting badge" aspect of it, because I think it devalues the qualification. I think the casting focused parts of the exam are necessary to weed out those whose casting is not a reasonable level, but perhaps those could be incorporated more into a teaching focused exam.
I think it would be great to have a "casting badge" qualification separate to an instructors qualification. A casting badge would allow people to work toward a defined goal as they might with the CCI now, but without having to worry about the teaching side. That would probably make it more enjoyable for many. A casting badge could have graduated steps aimed at different things. For example after a general first level badge similar to the CCI casts you could branch to badges for presentation casts, single handed spey, accuracy and such forth. Something like this would allow for directed study, help to motivate people to improve their casting, foster awareness of a broader range of casting, provide a ready made syllabus for clubs to adopt and also give instructors the opportunity to teach people to achieve the different badges.
A badge system could also be used to lead into the instructors qualification. You would need to have attained certain badges to sit the CCI which would free that exam up to focus on teaching. Basic casting proficiency would have been established by the badges.
Clearly a lot of people are interested in the CCI as badge. I think it is a great way to improve your casting, but if you're not interested in instruction I think you're maybe doing it for the wrong reasons. Well, maybe that's a bit harsh, but it is nominally a casting instructor's qualification. I'm interested in it as a way of showing I've reached a certain standard in instruction and to give people assurance I'm not some random guy off the street. That could have been through another qualification but the FFF CCI seemed to be the best one for me being here in NZ.
I personally don't need a badge to say I'm good at casting. I don't care that much if anyone else thinks I'm a good or bad caster, unless they're a dick about it ;-). I enjoy casting for casting's sake and it gives me personal satisfaction to get better at casting, not to mention it makes fishing a lot more fun! I would be far more disappointed if someone thought I was a bad instructor than if they thought I was a bad caster.
Of course I say all this after really putting casting aside for the last year or two because of other stuff in my life. One of my biggest regrets is that I've had to let my instruction slide soon after getting my qualification and not getting established as I'd hoped to. However once I've been able to sort out the other stuff I'm really looking forward to getting back up to speed with instruction again. The casting skill is ticking over and I know it will just take some work to get back to a good instruction level. The idea of that actually kind of thrills me :-).
Regards,
Jo
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Bernd
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Good points, Jo.
After my fine experience with the AAPGAI exam now, I see two different ways.
One is about offering an exam which is simply based on teaching (AAPGAI indeed does this). It would make it impossible to pass when being focused on casting.
The other one is offering two kind of exams. One for teaching and one only for casting. As you said the casting one could be the entering one for the teaching one later on.
Personally I would highly recommend this to the FFF and the EFFA since I have seen many candidates entering exams and having a huge focus on the casting instead of teaching. As Paul said: There is nothing bad in that cause still it is good to have that target and to go after. It always help to increase the level. It's just that I would want the organization's exam to fit with what the candidates are after!
Cheers
Bernd
After my fine experience with the AAPGAI exam now, I see two different ways.
One is about offering an exam which is simply based on teaching (AAPGAI indeed does this). It would make it impossible to pass when being focused on casting.
The other one is offering two kind of exams. One for teaching and one only for casting. As you said the casting one could be the entering one for the teaching one later on.
Personally I would highly recommend this to the FFF and the EFFA since I have seen many candidates entering exams and having a huge focus on the casting instead of teaching. As Paul said: There is nothing bad in that cause still it is good to have that target and to go after. It always help to increase the level. It's just that I would want the organization's exam to fit with what the candidates are after!
Cheers
Bernd
Bernd Ziesche
www.first-cast.de
www.first-cast.de
Again I'll post to this thread in hopes that what I am reading here isn't what the FFF CI certificate has become.
Again when I tested the examiners gave me the feeling that a candidates ability to teach was as equally important as their ability to cast. Also involved was the ability not only to make good casts but also poor casts on demand. How can one teach effectively if they can't replicate the casting issue a student might have?
I'm of the firm belief that it's relatively easy to find good casters and less easy to find good teachers. To find both qualities in any one person is a special find indeed. Here's hoping the CI exam will always put a lot of weight on both qualities.
Again when I tested the examiners gave me the feeling that a candidates ability to teach was as equally important as their ability to cast. Also involved was the ability not only to make good casts but also poor casts on demand. How can one teach effectively if they can't replicate the casting issue a student might have?
I'm of the firm belief that it's relatively easy to find good casters and less easy to find good teachers. To find both qualities in any one person is a special find indeed. Here's hoping the CI exam will always put a lot of weight on both qualities.
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Paul Arden
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The Australians are excellent examiners and have a very high level certification structure. CCIs are club and shop coaches. MCIs prepare CCIs. This goes for Asia too. If you're passed by an Australian examiner then you can be sure he's looking closely at your explanations and teaching ability. I've examined with both Haysie, Matt and Ling and they are all outstanding. Matt's nose is a bit disturbing however.
Cheers, Paul
Cheers, Paul
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