Promo video for Competition in Flycasting - (with fishing tackle)

[Lasse Karlsson]

So you don't compete with the SL rod? Got a special stiffer version made just for chucking the MED do ya :p No wonder you didn't get to the finals this year, all that bollocks about putting the runningline in the water and stuff

Oh, and Paul, ERN doesn't say anything without AA....

Cheers
Lasse

[Paul Arden]

Some guys compete with TCX 9. I'm using something like Bill's 7. Which is what I use for fishing a six line. Ok I haven't measured them so this is a hand waving guess :p I don't fish the Sexyloops PRO or COMPETITION5 with a five line because I find it too stiff for my needs. But for carrying and launching 88 feet of five it's spot on for me.

Cheers, Paul

[Paul Arden]

For the same reasons I prefer using a Spey taper (heavier again) when predominantly Spey casting!

[Bernd]

Hi Lasse,
you prefer to fish quite heavy gear compared with me though.
I use an ERN 4 to 4,5 (SP490) on Glomma graylings mostly. TCX 6wt. is around ERN 8 to 8,5.
That is what I instead use for Sea trout on the coast - casting significant heavier flies and fishing for much stronger fish compared to grayling as you know of course.

Well, then I understand that you think most casters used a typical fishing equipment in Norway or at least didn't see a different (distance casting orientated) tendency.

Of course I know how to fish a 6wt. TCX without breaking a leader, too...
It's just that I prefer a pretty fast lift of a much softer rod on nymphfishing mostly.

Personally I am fine with how it was since I liked the whole tournament pretty much. To thoose who did take it a bit more serious and have trained for it I would think that every deviation in any of these factors like: rod stiffnes, rod action, rod length, head length, head weight, line taper etc. (and then in relation to the wind everyone had) make it a little harder to compare the results.
Therefore I would vote for the very same tackle indoors to make it more comparable.

As I wrote this is just me and am fine if most want to leave it that much diviations between all kind of tackle being used.

I have a much longer (5wt. MED) carry on a Tarpon rod compared to a 5wt. TCR. : +10-15 feet
Also the "distance phenomenon" is completely gone with the Tarpon rod. In a windless situation it would be inpossible to compare my max distance when using a) a tarpon rod and b) a 5wt. TCR. Huge difference. Sure, this is only me...
Anyway comparing results in my book gets more difficult when different gear comes into the game.

Greets
Bernd

[Paul Arden]

I agree Bernd, it would be best if everyone used the same gear. The problem is how do we determine which gear to use, as it is some would like to see the inclusion of more lines. The SL Shootouts are best IMO because everyone gets to throw the same gear, including mismatched gear and some really weird stuff that someone brings along. Opening the line from just being the MED may lead some some innovation.

It's a hard one.

Cheers, Paul

[Bernd]

Personally I wouldn't care much since I think I can train to cast whatever gear would be decided to use.

If I would have to decide I would love to see a rod in the ERN 5,0 to 6,0 for the 5wt. MED.
If most casters want a stiffer one am fine with it, too.
Throw in three models and then have a lottery significant in advance maybe.

The SL shootouts were perfect to me (even though you beat me in most :p ).

[sms]

If there would be only one rod allowed, then the ones who have that rod or the people who like that kind of stiffness and action would have the edge. And you would have to buy that rod if you wanted to practice. Not good I think.

People are different, some have fast muscles, some have slow muscles. Some something in between. One rod -> one group is favored and the others are hating the situation. This is also why I would like to see more than one line choice.

Personally I tried rods with different ERNs as a side to side comparison last spring: I Five Rivers Sig V #5 9', II Five Rivers FT #5 9', III Five Rivers Sig V #10 9' and IV Five Rivers FT #12 9'. If I recall right, the values are about 6.5/66, 8.5/76, 13.2/66, 11.5/74. At least the ball park of the values is about correct. I've lost the measurement results thou...

I Distance and consistency almost the same as II. Problem is 3 pieces so I cannot turn the rings to the side and the unsanded finish really does not help FC hauling. It is actually a tad shorter too, about 8'10" or so,
II My main fishing and competition rod. Gives me best distance most consistently.
III Too stiff. This sings with a #10 line. Like I, this is a bit shorter also. Titanium framed ceramic guides also make the feel a bit worse.
IV Good casts like with the II, but consistency goes down a whole lot.

I think that in EU, it is not actually allowed to narrow down the options to one equipment and thus not one piece of equipment too. I am not sure, but this is what our grand old man of casting said.

For sea trout I used a club. For some reason it works for me in that event. I do not fish that rod thou. It is too much for me to handle for long periods of time.

[Lasse Karlsson]

Of course I know how to fish a 6wt. TCX without breaking a leader, too...
It's just that I prefer a pretty fast lift of a much softer rod on nymphfishing mostly.

So by lifting fast you break leaders? I must be the slowest in the world then...

I did see a distance casting tendency, most of the cometitions in Norway was about distance, pure and simple, throw the fluff the furthest, what did you think it was about?

I think all competitiors would like to have the whole event held indoors to take out the weather factor, good luck on finding the venue in Germany for 2016

Having everybody cast one rod and one line doesn't sound promising, who should choose? And Sakari brings up some interesting points too in that regard. If you choose we would be casting a noodle with a heavy line, if Sakari chosses it would be a broomstick with a light line, right know everyone can find the action and stiffness they like for a given line, sounds pretty fair and even for me. But I'm also of the thought that the gear matters very little as long as it fits you. Good technique and luck in weather plays the biggest factor in competition.

BTW. if you throw much much further with the tarpon rod than the tcr5, why on earth didn't you use the tarpon rod in Norway??

Cheers
Lasse

[Michal Duzynski]

I was asking all those questions, as Brend is doing now, b4 Norway.
Ive learned, and understood a lot since then, and Im 100% with Lasse on this one.
The point is that, it is the weight of line we are throwing, and what you are going to throw it with, your call.
Fishing equipment, I think we back to line here again. If I tie #22 midge on the end of 7x 10/12 leader I can still have a nice turnover and delicate presentation, even if I cast it with 9'#9 TCX. But do I really want it, I wont feel the small trout on it.
All TLT is about it. Lines Aftma #1,#2, on rods rated max #5.
If you put 12 weight line on 6'6" with 3 writen on it (Lasse Im using your video set up as an example), seem like nice light trout rod, so with this line on it doesnt seem to me like trout fishing tackle set up.

cheers
mike

[Michal Duzynski]

You all know what I've ment, the midge and thin, fine leader is connected to 5wt MED. Forgot to add that
mike

[Paul Arden]

I was practising with a TCX10 in Exmouth. Distances were OK but I get further with a rod that bends more. I had a small amount of pain in my elbow which lasted a couple of months following Exmouth. Whether this was casting the TCX with a 5 or 10 weight line repetitively I can't say.

Cheers, Paul

[Bernd]

I Five Rivers Sig V #5 9', 6.5/66, 8'10"

II Five Rivers FT #5 9', 8.5/76

I Distance and consistency almost the same as II

Hi Sakari,
thanks for sharing all your datas. I appreciate!

Quite interesting that those two rods gave you (almost) the same results.
5cm less in length seemed to be significant for me always as well as the difference in stiffness and action would be.

I am fine with your thoughts on leaving everyone the chance to use the gear which will fit best for themselves. It's not a bad concept for sure even though it brings in more variation in my understanding. Same would go to the allowance of different lines.

So by lifting fast you break leaders? I must be the slowest in the world then...

Hi Lasse,
maybe you just have found the strongest tippets in the world. :p More than once I saw people breaking leaders on nymphfishing while lifting a pretty stiff rod little too fast.

But I'm also of the thought that the gear matters very little as long as it fits you.

That is interesting to me. I have a slight different experience here.
Let's assume we have two casters one using an ERN 7 rod and the other an ERN 5 rod (both 9') in a windless situation. Both are on the same distance.
If some serious wind would start then I would put my money on the one casting ERN 7 then!
Why? Because in my experience most casters do better with increasing stiffness a bit in windy situations.
I agree there will come a point on which increasing the stiffness will mean to have such a huge diameter for the blank that wind will slow down rotation too much and the benefit might be gone again.

Would love to share some casts and compare some different outfits with you. Maybe we can do that next year.

BTW. if you throw much much further with the tarpon rod than the tcr5, why on earth didn't you use the tarpon rod in Norway??

In a windless situation I consistantly threw almost ten feet further with my old Graphite III (GFL) 13wt. Tarpon rod (compared to my favorite 5wt. rod). But it was no fun for me to cast that heavy stick. (tired within almost 5 minutes) Also everything else but aerializing longest carries was nothing I would call to be fun anyway. Furthermore that stick only worked in a windless situation since heavy wind significally slowed down rotation (for me) due to the heavy diameter...

Personally I would not have one general favorite stick but relating my choice to the (wind)situation. That goes for the rod and the line.

Greets
Bernd

[Paul Arden]

Because in my experience most casters do better with increasing stiffness a bit in windy situations.

Interesting, I suppose it depends on how stiff we're talking. With a strong tail wind I find it very difficult to throw a tight loop into the wind using a super stiff rod.

We'll have to try these things next time we cast together, Bernd!

Cheers, Paul

[Bernd]

I agree with that, Paul.
Mostly we have been using rods in the range of ERN 5 to 7 to cast different 5wt. and 6wt. longbelly lines in all kind of conditions.
As soon as significant wind showed up, we got an increase in distance when rising the ERN upto 7 to 9.*
Usually we did not try higher ones.
Lately I have tried higher ones as well and then again my distance drops since the rotation gets slowed down too much.
For most casters I have been with the little stiffer rods provided them tighter loops. Not bad in winds of course. Carry was increasing mostly (especially against the wind).

Let's take a defined example:
5wt. MED on a 9' ERN 5 rod compared to a 9' ERN 7 rod (same AA). I would put my money one the longer carry to happen for a high percentage of casters on the ERN7 one.
Especially (bot not only) in windy situations.

Does that example make sense to you yet?
Cheers
Bernd
*I think the SL 6wt. rod would fit in here. So this one would be what I was referring to as a "bit stiffer rod" which would give a benefit in windy situations.

[Lasse Karlsson]

Hi Bernd

So we have aa ern 5 with aa 75 and aa ern 7 with aa 60 and you say the 7 would be the stiffer one?

Cheers
Lasse