Tails on backcast of PUALD

[Paul Arden]

Hi guys,

Aitor showed me a video clip of a tendency to tail with the broomstick as a result of line configuration upon loop unroll on the backcast. A email question from a Malaysian guy training for his CCI, led me to draw these two possibilities for tails on backcast following a pick up. Personally I think most tails in these circumstances are a result of how the line looks at the start of the casting stroke and not a fault during the casting stroke.

Do you agree?

Thanks, Paul

[Paul Arden]

Incidentally Fender didn't come up with this; that's all the paper I had to hand at the time. I bought an electric guitar so I can play my rendition of Angie to the whole of Latohegy. The cat has already moved out.

[Aitor]

Not an actual tail IMO, just another version of line dangle; although the shape can be exactly the same.

[Paul Arden]

It all depends on your definition of Tail, Aitor. For me it is the loop itself, not how it got there. For example if you saw a photo of a loop with the classic tail configuration, you would never be able to say if it was a tailing loop or a dangling end variation! That's pretty confusing, especially since it's actually called "tailing loop".

Looking forward to a week of big pike and endless late night discussions!!

Cheers, Paul

[Aitor]

For example if you saw a photo of a loop with the classic tail configuration, you would never be able to say if it was a tailing loop or a dangling end variation!

True, you can not tell the difference. So we have a brand new cause of tails that works even with a broomstick.

Looking forward to a week of big pike and endless late night discussions!!

Yep! Conveniently accompanied by weissbier!

[Marc LaMouche]

Personally I think most tails in these circumstances are a result of how the line looks at the start of the casting stroke and not a fault during the casting stroke.

Do you agree?

hi Paul,
i'd agree and add that a lot of tails on P/U are also caused by improper power application very often combined with a lack of lift before the power stroke. the latter is the biggie in my experience.

Not an actual tail IMO

definitely is when there's a 'wind knot', no ?

cheers,
marc

[Paul Arden]

A wind knot is a special circumstance and requires a tracking error in addition to accomplish. I can't remember seeing tails as a result of lack of lift, normally completely the opposite, ie open loops. I suppose it's possible if the rod unloads fractionally when the line clears the water - better duck!

I'm back to seven distinct causes now, 1 too narrow CA for rod bend, 2 creep resulting in 1, 3 breaking 180 (dangling end), 4 improper force application (often at beginning of CS, also at end), 5 finishing haul too soon, 6 slack line, 7 line configuration at start of CS.

Cheers, Paul

[Marc LaMouche]

A wind knot is a special circumstance and requires a tracking error in addition to accomplish.

agree, but i'm also pretty certain that whatever may cause the fly-leg crossing twice tail, if there's a collision of the legs then there's a reaction to this impact, creating waves and further throwing the line legs all over the place sometimes resulting in knots, sometimes not. make sense ?
slomo analysis would be interesting

cheers,
marc

[cesarwf]

Not an actual tail IMO, just another version of line dangle; although the shape can be exactly the same.

+1

[Richard Wallace]

Is cause (7) the same as cause(6)? It seems that to commence the lift with the rod tip elevated introduces slack line.
Cheers,
Richard

[Paul Arden]

I wouldn't call that slack, Richard. Sag certainly. And I think with a longer stroke you can probably remove it of course, or have the wave run through the fly leg completely.

Hi Marc, for the tailing loop to create a wind knot, I believe all that needs happen is for the wave to hit the rod led and the line end to pass through the closed loop created.

Cheers, Paul

[Marc LaMouche]

I believe all that needs happen is for the wave to hit the rod led and the line end to pass through the closed loop created.

duh... :p

[VGB]

Paul

If you had come over in the free play section of the Open Day, I could have demonstrated all 7 causes in one cast. I had several master instructors that came to learn how to do it.

[LaMouche]

I wouldn't call that slack, Richard. Sag certainly.

Hi all,
Paul, maybe I miss your point but is it not the case that sag is a specific form of slack? If not, what's the difference?
thanks

[Paul Arden]

Slack can create a tail because it makes part of the casting arc ineffective.

Sag can result in a tail because the wave pre-exists in the line at the commencement of the casting stroke.

So that's why I think they're very different!

Cheers, Paul