Knot Wars - on tv

[mpukas]

Fella's and gals.

Here's a gear fishing show that is doing a series on testing knots head to head. They've got a nifty little machine that pulls two knots simultaneaously on scales to see which breaks first. They are putting each episode on the net as it happens.

So far they have gone through 8 knots in 7 episodes. The improved clinch was beat out pretty quickly. Most of the other knot I've not heard of. They're mostly gear knots, but some of them can work for FF.

The palomar knot is the current champ. And it's the only one so far suitable for braid. Start w/ the first vid in the series on the left under the screen. Cheers! mpp

http://fishingclub.com/ExtraContent/ExtraContentDetail.aspx?id=132344

[mattklara]

Everyone is always bad mouthing the clinch knot.

I like it.

I prefer to break off at the fly rather than breaking off my whole tippet.

Plus, I can tie them blindfolded, in the dark, with gloves on, during a hatch.

Something to think about.

[jomeder]

Hi Matt,

I had such a bad time with clinch and improved clinch knots breaking just when I tested them, probably half, and then more would break on fish. These weren't big fish either, 2-3 lb on 5 or 6 lb mono. I'd prefer that knots break for a good reason, irrespective of where they break :-).

I switched to Uni knots and have only had a few break offs since. I've had a couple recently which were my fault for not retying the knot when I should have. One of them was on the very first fish I solidly hooked at a lake I'd blanked on all 7 or 8 times I'd fished it previously, which caused the hills to ring with blasphemy.

I personally find Uni knots easier to tie in the winter with cold hands or gloves than I did with clinch knots. Horses for courses.

Funny thing about knots though. My brother originally showed me the Uni knot and said it was what he used all the time. Just lately he's been having a really bad run with them, just like I was with clinch knots. Knot voodoo...

I've had a look at some of the videos, interesting stuff. I've watched them up to the Palomar knot. The eye crosser was champ until then, and it beat the Uni knot, but the eye crosser goes through the eye twice, which can be tricky with small flies. Just about to watch the Palomar one :-).

Regards,

Jo

[mattklara]

Interesting. I cant remember ever having a clinch knot fail because of weakness. Improperly tied knot, yes. But I don't even own 6x, so that might be an issue. I can't remember the last time I dropped below 8#. Maybe last July.

This is just setting the stage for tomorrows FP. I can't wait

[mpukas]

Most of the guides and other FF's I know use a clinch, and I've used it since I was a kid. But I got sick of them breaking so much. If you're using higher than 8# or 10# or so, then it's probably fine. Even on 4X and 5x it breaks too often for my taste.

Like you Matt, I detest leaving a hook in a fish. That's one of the main reason I stopped using a clinch knot. I use the fisherman's aka 16/20 knot and have much better sucess. Plus, now I find it easier and much more consistent to tie than the clinch. I rarely get breaks off's any more.

I think the test is very intesting. There's lots of people in the fishing industry talking about which knots are best, some more reliable than others. This test lets everyone see the numbers as they come up. More info for our arsenals. mpp

[Stoatstail50]

This test lets everyone see the numbers as they come up.

Where are the numbers ??

This test might give some indication of relative strength but it tells you nothing about actual strength and absolutely nothing about the true strength difference between knot A v knot B, which could be very small.

[Aitor]

Till a couple of years ago I always used the Improved Clinch; just a matter of habit. But I am with jomeder and mpukas: the Improved Clinch breaks too easily (at least with 5X and 6X, wich are the sizes I use the most).

So one day I took a couple of tying vices, two #16 dry fly hooks and a 6X spool of mono, and played with it during more than an hour. I cut a length of mono and tyed one hook with an Improved Clinch, and the other one with an Orvis knot. Then, I put one hook in each vice, and keeping one of the vices static (one clamp model, clamped to the table) I pulled steadily with the other. I conducted this experiment dozens of times, and the result was always the same: the Improved Clinch always failed first.

Since then, I have discarded the Improved Clinch for good.

Cheers,
Aitor

[Stoatstail50]

I have to admit that I still have a bad clinch habit, though logic dictates that there are are better knots, and it definitely doesnt work well in lightweight flourocarbons.

There must be a self help group I could join

[Marc LaMouche]

"hello, my name is Mark and i'm a clinchaholic..." :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[Stoatstail50]

It would only take a couple of us to get together and we could get grant aid......

[Marc LaMouche]

geez mark, don't you have some wonderful invention that could help us C.A.A. members ?

[Stoatstail50]

Nope, this is an hitherto unspecifed psychological phenomena that can only be dealt with by "Stop Using Clinch Knots Association" approved therapists.

[Marc LaMouche]

be careful, i wouldn't trust an approved therapist specializing in hitherto unspecified psychological phenomena.
on what grounds would they base their therapies, even more so if they're flishers themselves ?

good old electroshock or mozart-therapy should do the trick, cheaper on the tax-payer as well.

pity none of your contraptions are up to this endeavor, i rather like them.

cheer up, things could be worse. you could be living in france.

marc

[Stoatstail50]

There aren't any approved therapists.....they're still in training...the organisation was only formed at about 2.00 this afternoon remember....don't change anything yet, you could bring on a first class bitch of a psychotic episode.

Nightmare....

[mpukas]

Where are the numbers ??

there's a digital read-out @ the top of each puller. It seems that only the knot that breaks gets displayed, leading one to assume that other knot was at least that strong. I think the strongest knot that broke was the Trilene knot @ 23.3.

I think that's in pounds. The line they're using is 14 lb mono. Is it possible that 14lb line breaks @ greater than 20 lbs of pressure?

If you haven't checked the link lately, they added a new segment. They've gone thru all their lure knot connections - with the palomar winning, and are now testing leader knots.

The test up is a "leader" knot vs "fisherman's bend". Their "leader" knot looks to me like a nail knot splice (2 back-to-back nail knots). It wins hands down, especially w/ braid. I've always thought the nail knot splice to be a better leader knot than a blood knot, which is esentially two clinch knots back to back.

I wish he showed how he tied that knot in person, because I'm nail-knot challenged. Especially w/ a nail knot tool. When I slide the wraps off the end of the tool, they always cross over and don't stay straight. And that leads to a bad knot which breaks. Maybe I need to start another supprt group! mpp